Well, it’s been almost 2 years since we initially featured GW’s Pontiac GTO Judge convertible barn find, you can read the original story here. He recently sent over some new photos of the car as it sits today. It’s been freed from the barn, cleaned and tuned up. Since it’s up and running again, he thought we might all enjoy an update. I for one always love to see where some of the car’s we’ve featured in the past are today, so it was a thrill to see this GTO!
From GW – Well, as promised, here are some photos of the Judge after a good several month’s worth of gentle and careful cleaning. It still has the original poly-glass tires and they hold air. The car started right up and runs like a Bull. As I had hoped from the start, I am going to leave the car all original. It must be the only one left in totally original condition. Out of 108 built, 29 were automatic, out of that 29, about 5% had factory air and only 1 was built with every single option offered. It turns out this is that 1 car.
It’s a Ram Air 3, not a 4 simply due to the fact that air was not available with the Ram Air 4. It was originally ordered as a Ram Air 4 car with air but Pontiac would not do it. The car was ordered in Miami so skipping Air was not an option!
Look, it even has cornering lamps. I have never seen another example with this option. Unreal. Original sticker price was over $5,000. Almost $2,000 of that was in options alone. The front bumper as you can see are primer black. It was replaced in 76 after a truck clipped the corner when it was parked on the street. Yes, the guy who did it was drunk and got caught and arrested.
I want to thank GW for keeping us updated on his progress. We are often promised updates, but never end up hearing anymore about a find after we initially feature it, so it’s fun to actually find out what happened with this GTO! While it isn’t a perfect and pristine car, I appreciate his decision to keep it original. There’s something incredibly special about a survivor, even if it isn’t perfect. It’s always fun to see cars like this that aren’t trailer queens. So thanks again GW and best luck with your Judge. And if you happen to own a car that has been featured here on Barn Finds in the past, we would love to hear from you!
Very cool Judge. I’d like to see the PHS to see if the power antenna is listed. This wasn’t supposed to be built this way because the rear spoiler would clip the antenna upon raising the deck lid.
Agree, would like to see the documents. Always up for new learnings.
I’m sure it’s correct. This is not the first Judge I have seen with a factory power antenna, although it’s very rare. This car is outstanding. You can just tell this car has not been messed with. Leave it original. Big bucks.
I see several things that raise a flag for me. Wheels all appear to have had trim rings, wing is off a hardtop, power antenna, tires and size. Not quite as original as the story states. Maybe a special paint Carousel Red (only available on Judge option as standard in 69) RAIII ragtop that someone or a dealer added stripes and a wing to? There are a few documented non-Judge Carousel Red cars around, many of them are heavily optioned and were built in the April/May timeframe. Have researched these for awhile and always trying to find more information. I have seen wing cars with power antenna as well, but never one with documentation as having both options originally from the factory. I’d love to be proved wrong.
Ok. The power antenna not being offered due to the wing was a rumor started long ago from a automobile magazine no less and it just took off. I’m telling you now it’s flat out false. Also, that rear wing is convertible correct. Look at it closer. That is not a hardtop wing in any way shape or form. As from trim rings, it does not mean anything. If this was just a driver in the 70s, trim rings would be the “in thing” as they dressed up the car. Nobody cared at the time. I remember other Judges running around with trim rings. You can’t go by that either. Look close at that original paint and look closer at those stripes. You can tell they have been on the car since the start. Nobody was reproducing Judge stripes back in the 70s when this car was parked. Also, check out that oil change service sticker on the inside post. You can clearly see the original Carousel red finish and if you look close, you can see a service date sticker of 1-6-70 very clear with 8600 miles from a long gone American, later changed to Amoco gas station with a Florida address. Also, the first Judge convertible in Florida was shipped to Hallett Pontiac in Miami and was delivered the first week of January 1969 as a special order, fully optioned out car for the owner of this dealership as a dealership promotion car to attract buyers. I’ll just bet my butt that this is that exact car. One more note of interest, I know of two other documented 69 Judges with the power antenna. One is a Limelight Green coupe and the other is a Liberty Blue convertible. Here is a photo of the Liberty Blue Judge convertible with the power antenna. Don’t ask my why I know all this GTO data, I just do.
Here is another thing, I am convinced but to anyone who is not, Carousel Red was a Judge only color. It was not a standard GTO color option. However, it was believed that a very small handful, about 7 or 8 as I recall, 1969 GTOs somehow, were special ordered in this color request and were actually built. If this somehow, is one of those cars, with the Ram Air and all the options, that would make it even rarer and likely even more valuable than a Judge! We know this car was born in Carousel red 100% for sure. That 1970 oil chance sticker still on the inside post confirms it. This is a truly one of a kind car no matter how you see it.
Nessy, CR was a Firebird color that was a special-order option for the A-body.
http://www.gt-37.org/factory-literature/1969-pontiac-colors-interiors/
I know that Trey, that’s what I said. It was a special order but only a handful of GTOs were actually ordered and built in CR.
Nessy, when you said “I am convinced but to anyone who is not, Carousel Red was a Judge only color” it could be construed that the color was not offered on standard GTOs. The item that I posted shows that it was available as a special order, not unlike Goldenrod Yellow.
Nessy, do you have documents on those car with the antennas? Not saying it didn’t happen, just every time I ask the question the conversation seems to stop. I don’t want to argue, just want to learn. I’d gladly purchase the PHS myself to just see if it was listed or not, obviously don’t know the VINs on the cars that you are referring to though. Agree on the trim rings, they were commonly added. I have a late April Arlington built RAIII rag that was special ordered in Carousel Red. Like I said, always trying to learn more on these cars. It has power antenna as an option. I have also seen/documented 2 others that were special paint Carousel non-Judge rags with power antenna. Needless to say, I am curious about these anomalies. I’d also love to hear more about a ’69 ram air car with a 1st week of January shipment date. I’ve never seen anything earlier than 3rd/4th week January.
No I don’t Doug. That would help alot if I did. However, those 2 cars with the power antennas were at the Pontiac nationals so I would assume since they were on display at a show this large, if they were fake, it would have been pointed out. I know the blue car was built in the spring. I saw the door post date. This Miami car in question, if it’s the car I think it is, was delivered to Hallet Pontiac the end of the second week of January, not the first week. Since the very first batch of Judges were coupes, is it possible that the first couple of convertibles had the coupe wing installed as the larger wing was not ready? Hey, it’s possible. Nevertheless, there is something very special about this car. I just feel it. Say, new owner, is this the Hallet Miami car or not?
I understand wanting to keep it original and all, but why not put a safe set of tires on and drive it? And if I spent several months cleaning it, it would be a lot cleaner than presented now…with that said, I would give up my middle child for this beautiful Judge….
Where are the pics of the cleaned up car?
Also curious on the tires. I’ve never documented a ’69 GTO with white letter tires and wasn’t aware that E-60 was an available tire option. That should be documented on the PHS as well.
You’re right Doug, those tires are definitely not correct for an original Judge. But I can assure you, ’69 Ram Air cars were being delivered in at least November ’68 – I owned the earliest Ram Air ’69 car known – 11D on the trim tag, Starlight Black, non-Judge, hardtop. And yes I have the PHS. I also have a PHS for a car in Norway that’s earlier than mine, it just hasn’t made the GTO Judge and Ram Air Registry yet. Here is the link.
http://69judgeregistry.com/public_html/69_Ram_Air_Registry.html
One of the most beautiful bodies GM ever produced. In our little car group, Tom F. had a ’69 Judge coupe. My brother had his ’70 GS 455 Convertible, I had the HemiCuda Convertible, Jay had a ’70 Satellite, Mike had a Jeep that was so ‘built’ that he had more money in the engine than I had in the HemiCuda, and Tim had a ’70 442. That was a wicked crew on Saturday nights, but that Judge was a standout. As a convertible, it would’ve been irresistible. Great memories.
So you’re the guy up the street who had all the cool cars at his house…fond memories!
+Tommy D – I’m not sure I recognize your name. Please forgive me. Can you give me a little more info.
Just speaking generally…there was a guy on my street who had all these cool cars in the 70’s…maybe it was you if you lived in MI?
+Tommy D – I don’t believe I’m the connection of whom you were thinking. Been in Scottsdale, AZ since 1964. But your ‘memory’ is correct. For a period of about 15 years, my brother and I had a massive succession of some of the most desirable muscle ever made. There were many in the neighborhood who made excuses to come by just to see what we had found that week/month.
I have a picture of the cars our close friend Mark H had, and just his little group would knock your socks off. At one time, he had a ’66 HemiCharger (the car he had when we met), a 1966 Hemi Coronet 4-speed, 1968 Chevy SS 427 convertible (for 1968 only, they didn’t say Impala anywhere on them), a 1970 HemiCuda Race/Street car (which my friend converted from a 440+6 car originally), and a 1970 440+6 Challenger 4-speed convertible WITH FACTORY A/C!
Wait a minute, you say, 440+6’s didn’t have factory A/C! And sure enough, this one didn’t come from the factory with it, but there it was. It turned out that this was a Dodge press car, and being in Arizona, they didn’t want the press to go through what they made their customers go through. Sooo, they had the delivery dealer do the complete upgrade. Turns out that Dodge Marketing has somewhat more clout than the average customer. There it was, and it fit perfectly. The front corner of the air cleaner had to be notched slightly. Thus, my friend had the only ‘Factory’ air 440 six pack Challenger that we know of.
That was a small part of the cars that floated in and around our circle. Thank you for your question, Tommy.
I am glad that the owner is keeping it original,
but I would argue that “tires”should never be original
on an old car,that for sure will get driven,I would buy another set of original
wheels,and put new tires on them,and keep the “originals”
for “judged car shows”-LOL–Very nice to see an
unrestored example,but I would love to see it cleaner
and lightly buffed with mechanicals made sound…..for long drives!!
That rear wing is suspect. It’s a hardtop wing. Factory mistake? or it’s been messed with.
Look at the last comment on the original story by SD. Your suspicions may be correct.
I am a buyer at 80k
It’s always good to see what happens to the cars you feature let’s hope we see more of that.😎👍
Great car! I own a vinyl top ’69 Judge myself same Carousel red also. Just can’t beat a ragtop though. Mine was ordered with G70-14 Goodyear tires. Were E70’s on due to rear quarter clearances because it’s a convertible also hardtops had different spoilers and trunk springs as well correct?
When i was about 8 y/o or so….bout 30 yrs ago…i went with my dad to look at a go cart for me….the guy had a triple black 69 R/A 3 4 spd hidden light hood tach 69 judge he bought off the lot after high school only owner of it kept n a climate controled garage……any way at 8 i was just about hood height….the hidden headlights on a triple black car with the open scoops had a F*** with me if you want look/attitude to it i feel in love with it…..to this day its still my dream car darn near “sell my soul” for one…..maybe thats where my pontiac addiction came from…..most people have a vette or two a couple chevelles,camaros or stangs……i have 14 pontiacs….from 50 to 79 all 2drs mostly early mid 60s tri powers 4 spds 8 lug cars so to say i want a 69 judge is a understatement…..but it have to be a 4 speed….some thing like that you just have to row the gears and hear thhat ole 400 sing…..oh one day…..
Pontiac didn’t keep records of the number of Judge automatic ragtops with AC. Owner is mistaken.
I just sold my 69 carousel red ram 4 judge
I can appreciate this car. Had it for 23 yrs. It’s now going to see car shows and get proper exposure. Still have my 70 got pro street.
Beautiful beast. About 30 years ago I picked up a R.A.III 4spd convertible(not a Goat) with hood tach that someone had used as a parts car to restore a Le Mans. Until yours, it was the only one I had seen with the factory cornering lights and also had a weird original reverb unit for the radio that was made with coiled springs(does your car have that, and how does it work?). It was painted Goldenrod Yellow(poorly) over the original Liberty Blue with a white top. When I got it they had swapped the EnduraFlex nose with hidden headlights out for standard chrome bumper. A time later I stumbled across the very same original nose at a yard sale, on the corner of a guys porch – bought it back for $50. Original motor had been swapped out for a 350 and auto. I eventually got a thousand dollars saved up to start work on it and towed it the shop I worked at. Got it running that night and backed it out in the morning. That day a customer brought in a ’57 TR3(without bumpers) and when I went to pull it back in at the end of the day, my brakes went to the floor with the TR3 squashed between a goat and a concrete wall. I spent the thousand repairing the damage to the TR3(and then some, to keep the customer happy). The goat went back into storage until I fell on hard times and lost it. I think I miss every vehicle I used to own, but especially that one that I only ever drove less than 200′. If I had Harrah’s money, I would have a bigger collection than he had. A goat would be on the top of the list.
Correction: mine was a Goat, I meant to put that it was not a Judge.
There is no difference between hard top and convert wing. Trunk has a stronger spring to hold trunk up due to extra weight. thats all!
There absolutely is a difference in a hardtop and convertible wing. The body line on the 1/4 where the wing rests is different between the 2. At a simple level, the hardtop wing is narrower than a convertible. The torsion rods, aka trunk springs, are not different for the wing, just adjusted accordingly as far as I know.
You are correct. I am wrong. 70 is the same. 69 is wider in convert.
Nessy…..the car has a hardtop spoiler on it. The wing tips are not wide enough to meet the quarter panels and are canted inward at the front instead of outward. End of story.
No Winston, it’s not the end of story. It’s just starting. It could be a hardtop wing, I will give you that. That open trunk photo showing the inside of the trunk with the cutouts from the wing sure looks correct to me. Maybe the first convertibles were fitted with the coupe wing as the convertible wing tooling was not ready yet? I know the very first batch of Judges were coupes but I know I will get called out on that too. Someone must know the answer….What I want to know is this the Miami Hallet dealership special order car?
Good day to all. Well, I was not going to make any comments about the car, however, you are Correct Nessy. This car was a special order car with every single option offered, from Hallet Pontiac in Miami by the owner of the dealership. That power antenna option is original and correct to this car. The original sales order form shows it to be ordered as a Ram Air 4 car with Air, however, that order did not go through, as we all know, Air was not offered with a Ram Air 4. It was the first convertible to be delivered to that dealership as a promotion car and we believe the first one in the State of Florida. Second week of January. As for the rear wing questions, that wing has been on the car since new and does not hit the power antenna when you open the trunk. It’s always been our understanding that when the power antenna option was selected, the car came with the coupe wing so the antenna would not hit the wing. I can not give any other answer to that question. That is the original paint and the original strips. Those tires were not on the car from new, however, they are the second set of tires, installed around 71 or 72 at the latest. We used to call it the Clown Car because it was so flashy and funny looking. The car was originally known back in the day as “The Super Judge” Still have an old hat in the car that says, The Super Judge on it. The car will not be sold, it’s staying in the family. Thank you for the comments. It’s a blessing to have such a rare machine. Can’t put a price on that. By the way, the original “Hallet Pontiac Miami” dealership metal plaque is still on the left side of the trunk lid.
AH HA! I knew it was the Hallet Miami car! Thank you, thank you very much, I’ll take a bow now. Everything you said makes sense about that car. Like I said, I have vast knowledge in this field. I do not just make bs up. The record sales price for a Ram Air 4 convertible was Milt’s car at $682000! His 70 brought $308000 and his 71 brought $286000. An unrestored barn find 1 of 1 color combo Ram Air 4 70 convertible did $350000 as I recall and numerous convertible Ram Air 3 convertibles now topping $200000. Non Judge Ram Air convertibles are also starting to explode as they are often just as rare as a Judge convertible. There is a non Judge convertible Ram Air 4 coming up for auction in January at Mecum and bidding is expected to top $300000. Your original paint, unrestored find would sell in a minute for $150000 just the way it sits. Never restore the car. It’s a car for other restorers to go by. How many still have their original paint? Maybe none? Trust me. Best wishes with that one of a kind “Super Judge” Mr GW.
Post the PHS.
Lots of interesting comments!!! As tripower said, I was a guy in a group of friends That ,everyday was on the prowel for these factory hot rods. Lots of people would always stop buy to see the latest finds,and they always had a story I could tell them. We had hundreds!!! A few-64 gto,#3 built tri-power with the 428 heads and tri-power factory headers ect.,$ (yes 4 ) 68 z-28 Camaros,69 camaro ss 396/375 horse loaded with options a few 68 ss chevelle-,1 was a very nice conv., a 66 Shelby racer turned into a street car,Raced into the late 60s Lots of mopars cudas and such a 66 hemi charger. I have to stop since I wont quit. People that know me say I should write a book.
There were a few of us, huh?
if the front end got wacked by a drunk why weren’t the grills replaced with black grills instead of gray ?
Wouldn’t be the first car with incorrect grille color.
This car is definitely unique, desireable, and has a great option list. I am still struggling with it being a factory built Judge convertible that early into Judge production. This car was likely built by the factory in special order Carousel Red with all the options. (Carousel Red was special order for non-Judges). The dealer could have easily layed on the stripes and stickers along with installing a wing before the original purchaser saw the car. Even if this is not a factory built Judge, this is a VERY SPECIAL car in and of itself. As many have stated, the PHS docs would tell the story. Spent the weekend at MCACN pretty much studying only ram air Pontiac cars and this one is still in my mind.
I agree with Doug ,it is a special car , it’s similar to the pic I’m enclosing, Carousel Red, Blacked out grills, no stripes or badges, rear antenna,this is a factory ordered car that’s not a Judge
I forgot to add that it’s also a Ram Air 3 car