The Packard Eight was offered in a number of wheelbases and many body styles. These cars feature a 4 speed fully synchromesh transmission, ride control, a system of dash-adjustable hydraulic shock absorbers, and a very smooth running eight cylinder engine. This 833 has a 134 1/2″ wheelbase and was offered in 11 body styles. Interest in prewar cars has diminished and values have dropped dramatically. Ten years ago a restored 833 sold for $170,000. Now, a restored 833 like this one might sell for $100,000 or likely much less. This Packard is is listed on eBay in El Dorado, Arkansas. With 5 days left, bidding is at $8,300 with no reserve. This appears to be a very original car. The wood is said to be in good condition, the engine turns and the interior is complete but needs restoration. The roof insert is gone though.
Time has not been kind to the upholstery. There are shops that could soften the leather and patch it from the back if you really wanted to keep it original. Much of the interior will have to be replaced, however.
The dash appears to be in remarkable shape. It looks ready to drive from this angle.
The engine appears complete and original. It turns, so restoration should be possible with the usual mechanical attention. Parts are plentiful and are not terribly expensive.
Things look complete on this end with minimal rust apparent.
Aside from the dented headlight and broken lens, the front looks complete and undamaged. As is often the case, complete restoration would exceed the value of this car, so restoration would have to be a labor of love. The buyer could do the necessary mechanical work to get it running and driving as well as the roof insert and upholstery. If the buyer could spend about $10,000 to get it running and driving it might be a worthwhile project. Or, for not much more one could purchase a really nice driver. A incredibly nice Packard just like this one sold on eBay recently for only $28,069. There is a really nice 845 Deluxe, for example on eBay for $60,000. It’s similar but a larger more luxurious model that appears to be an older restoration. It will be interesting what our readers think of this once grand old Packard and its potential.
To get these prewar cars to appeal to a younger crowd there going to have to start restomoding them Id start by pulling the body off the frame so that the frame and everything on it can be modernized. 350cid crate motor with all the goodies on it for it to be a turn key fuelie, 700r4 trans, Dana 60 rear axle, and double A arm front suspension to get things started. Original wire wheels could be used I guess but I’d go with new after market wires for safety at higher speeds. Finally 4 wheel disc brakes would be a must as for the body I’d restore to a stoke appearance with revised lighting so you can see at night in modern day traffic. Last but not least a Ful on custom leather interior 4 high back custom seats. console with all the trimmings. Now we’re talking about a one hundred K + car that can meet the demands of our roads today. Can you imagine dropping off your kid at school in this thing after its all done up
No Mark, Nooooo. Please. I feel you are missing the point of this grand automobile. It should, nay MUST be restored to original condition. This was one of a half a handful of automobiles( note, I say “automobiles” and not “cars”) that the younger generations should be able to experience. Of course, this isn’t for dropping off your kid at school, or the ball game parking lot, but this was motoring at it’s finest, and only a few got to experience that.( probably 10 times the price of a Ford) There are “cars”(or trucks) where I think resto-mod is ok, but not to a ’31 Packard. Fabulous automobile, worth every penny.
OK Howard I take it all back. I was tired when I wrote that. And for this Packard maybe a museum quality restoration is in order. What happens most of the time now with a rare unrestored car is it will just get passed around by a bunch of flippers trying to make a fast buck. Or it will get over restored and end up in a nicer barn only to reappear in another 30 years at an estate sale. Or it will end in another barn/ garage with boxes of Christmas decorations piled on it and old tires inside it. I hope that it gets bought by a guy in this thirties with a passion for the hobby and time in his life to do something with it. But you and I both know there are not a lot of guys like that, that would be willing to take this on develope a budget and commit to a 10 year project.
Hi Mark, that’s ok, but you are probably right. Interest is waning for these “full classic’s” (as defined by the CCCA) only because of the lack of interest in these . Younger generations have little, if any, connection with these automobiles. Going slow in a vehicle like this is akin to having teeth pulled. This was motoring, just for the enjoyment of motoring,( and mostly on gravel roads, I might add) and not racing to Autozone before they close. There are still enough of us old farts around to realize what this automobile represented. A couple of generations from now, I’m not so sure.
I agree with Howard.I owned that particular car for 13 years and realized it was one of only 5 of this model left,that I could find.At the time I sold it in 1985, I had 4 young children and realized I did not have the money or time to restore it in the manner it should be restored.My accomplishment and tribute to the quality of Packards is that the Packard ran from when I bought it in 1972 until I sold it in 1985.And I made it complete with purchase of small parts that were missing when I purchased it.The current quality of the wood in the dash and doors is due to the polyurethane high gloss I used after restoring the wood.That restoration was done,painstakingly, 40 years ago!
To all you naysayers I invite you to not just to hit the button but how about you post an opinion. And let me know why you disagree.
How funny is this, people objecting to an invitation to have their say
Mark………You are hanging out with the wrong people……..have you ever been to Pebble Beach or Amelia island?
I’d love to go I never have been but right now I can hardly walk any more I need both my knees replaced and a herniated disc in my back isn’t helping. Oh and I’m kind of poor these days. Believe it or not I do understand the perspective of restore and preserve but Im just going on what i see and Im telling you that 95% of the under 25 crowd don’t care about these cars beyond seeing one in a museum. And here’s another fact every year the people that can connect emotionally with these old beauties are dieing off by the hunderds. I can remember not that long ago a run of Copart salvagers post were here on barn finds trying to sell this age of cars because the children of the people that had these were passing them on and they didn’t want them. They couldn’t even bother trying to sell them, they were willing to let go of grandpa’s pride and joy for scrap value. I go to a very nice auto museum where I live and in there are some absolutely prefect cars, and when I look around me all I see is old guys enjoying the moment while they relive the past. Now I know there enough of these still around that are in fact over restored they look perfect in every way that the heritage of these fine automobiles will not be completely forgotten, so if you modify the odd one all is not lost and you might even get a young guy interested. Restomoding this old car might some day save it from the crusher. I’m reminded of a late 40’s town and country convertible that was featured on Jay Leno’s garage. It was restomoded to basically a modern car while retaining it vintage look now that car is on the road all the time and in a way is an ambassador to the hobby. Why? Because it’s cool and it’s seen and it’s again useful. So Dave I respectfully disagree I don’t think I’m hanging with the wrong crowd I just see things for what they are.
There are few 25 year olds that have the money or experiance to appreciate fine things of any type. Most have never been exposed to great things. We see the same thing in guns, most are buying plastic stock mass produced appliances that have little sole. When they handle my pre war August Schueler trap gun or my Merkel stalking rifle, that all changes. These old cars are the same. When exposed to greatness and experiencing the real value of quality they do appreciate and are drawn to it. There is nothing wrong with having a hot rod……I have black appliance guns too……but it is not the same as true class and quality. So, as old guys, it is our responsibility to teach young people about this stuff so when they have more than a Toyota payment, they can experiance what fine quality is all about. Like I have said here before (I also do horse drawn carriages) a fine Brewster road coach built in the 1890’s are still selling for hundreds of thousands of dollars and the quality is breathtaking.
I appreciate what you are saying, But I do get the the sense that you think that us poorer folks should stay away because our financial stature is unworthy of this fine automobile. I guess that was the attitude of people back when it was built too. At least for a few year when it got to be ten years old it would have been just another old car that needed to be replaced. But I’m supposed to think that it is some kind of gem to be set aside for the wealthy as they are so much more worthy of this fine old worn out beat down rust bucket of a car. God forbid it end up in the hands of an old beat down mechanic that knows what a money pit it really is. Can you tell that might have struck a nerve Dave. Well don’t worry I’m sure there is a flipper right around the corner looking to make a buck on it. It won’t be me.
Mark, I think you are missing the point of owning these cars……we don’t own and collect this type car to use as a driver. Off course, they will be driven to shows or on a nice weekend or in a parade……but that is not really why we buy and enjoy them. We all have daily drivers…..(I have about half a dozen) the utility is not really the point. If you need a daily driver……this is not a good car for you. These cars are owned by people that own there houses, furniture, anything we need in life has already been taken care of………..this kind of purchase is the cream, after everything else is provided for…….his wife already has a 3 carrot diamond and her closet is full. This type car will eventually find a home with an enthusiast, not a hot rodder or someone needing daily transportation.
I get that Dave and I would not use this as a daily driver if it were mine only an occasional driver I to have a hobby car a sidecar motorcycle and a daily driver. The point I was making is when this was new it belong to someone of wealth. But after it was miled out it became his worthless cast off. Thats where I have come in all my life, I take someone’s cast off and I bring it back to life and get a whole second life that most people can’t do. So when I see a car that I like in this condition I feel it’s my turn to have a kick at the cat. But what I’m hearing is oh it’s old enough now for it be a made into a trophy for the rich so stand back we’re taking it back. Dave the way your presenting to me makes me feel like I’m being talked down to just a little bit. It might surprise you I do get how the world works but it doesn’t mean I have to like it. End of rant thanks for your views I always respect your perspective even when I don’t agree. Last thing I think we can agree on is this car is going to need everything and it won’t be cheep. That is way restomods always look more economically viable to me.
In my experiance the idea of “restomod” you talk about is more expensive on a car like this than a restoration. If it was some bullet peppered hulk with little or no running gear left you would have a point. These are very sound machines that in this condition will likely take little to get going again. A good paint job can easily cost twice what an engine rebuild and you would want to do that whitch ever direction you took. These old packard engines last a long time, a broken gearbox could be a challenge, brake rebuild is not that expensive, paint and body could eclipse 10,000, rebuilding the interior as orignal would cost no more than replacing it (unless you do a Tijuana job) I see no money saving doing it your way…..there are plenty of rusted hulks around to play with without tearing up a complete nearly drive able car.
4 speed full syncromesh gearbox? Are you sure?
Hi Wayne, it was known as the “quick shift” all synchromesh transmission. Apparently, ’31 was the last year for the 4 speed, and Packard went with the all synchro 3 speed in ’32.
For 1/8 the price of the 58 BelAir, you get double the gears and quadruple the class. To hot rod this car is ludicrous. It already was cutting edge. It was made by genuine craftsmen who had served their apprenticeships. You could cut it to pieces but karma would haunt you for the rest of your life!
What make you think that there aren’t still fully trained genuine craftsmen?
Heres the thing. You buy a car like this and fix it up be a driver. Then you use it a couple of times a year. Each time the battery is, or the gas is bad, or the tires are soft. Your spouse is too busy to ride along, so I becomes a solo experience. And really, the nice ride is slow, hot, squeaky and not terribly comfortable. So the car just sits and eventually gets sold again. You have to really enjoy the OWNERSHIP experience of this car, where you walk into your garage and find pleasure and satisfaction in the appearance, history and workmanship. While you can buy a nice used modern driver for half what this car costs, the intangibles make this a good value for the right person. I like seeing these cars and appreciate them, but ownership isn’t for me. Now a low mileage 55 Bel Air 4 door for the same 20 grand, that would make me smile.
I expect to go to Year Ones show on Saturday. I went to caffeine and octane last sunday. You won’t see anything like this at these shows. This is the problem. We need to see cars like this to generate interest. Caffeine and octane had 20 Lamborghini and always does. That makes a car like this more interesting. I’d say dress up like the great gatsby with your flapper girlfriend/wife and a glass of champagne and make a statement.
This is an absolutely beautiful automobile and I agree that unrestored (or even when restored) it is going to be a high maintenance ride.
But for those of us who grew up with gear-grinding manuals with no A/C and uncomfy driving configurations, this is, again, a beautiful automobile.
Wind, rain, clutching/shifting, steering, pumping the brakes, foot-managing the accelerator (don’t jam on it too hard), these old beasts need compassionate drivers who have a sympathetic approach to their basic mechanical nature. Teach the kids how to drive them and wrench on them. Then you’ll see their value maintain.
I would love to have this car.
Bingo!
I have to agree with Howard on this one, Mark, but I do understand your initial (albeit, as you attribute it, tired) thinking about it. Here’s a restomodded Packard I saw at a Douglasville GA car show in 2005. The body looks to be entirely original, but the undercarriage, engine and interior are all new. Wouldn’t you rather be limosine’d around in this than a new stretch!
Ditch the pearl paint, the wide wheels and too new tires, and restore the interior. Then I could tolerate this car.
That is an abomination on about 10 levels. I would ride a bicycle to my wedding before using that. For anybody arguing to restomod the subject Packard go find a rougher less desirable car that would never get restored.
The 833 Packard is a neat car and could be a fun project for the right person. However, like more unrestored cars, you could quickly be underwater.
AJ you just answered your objection ( however like more unrestored cars you could quickly be underwater). This is what puts this car at risk of being scrapped. As for the restomod that is posted above if you don’t want to ride in it thats ok, frees up a space for someone that does. I think it is not only gorgeous but also useful.
Mark, I guess taste is subjective.
As for the Packard, yes, you would be underwater with maybe even a limited restoration, but I would argue you would be more underwater if the car is butchered into a “resto mod”, The gold car above trades in a very very thin market. The traditional restoration guys abhor it while the traditional hot rod guys hate it just as much.
Also, the idea that guys are only interested in the cars they grew up around is false. The brass era cars have a great following and nobody was alive then. Last time I checked, Duesenbergs are trading for plenty of money and there are about 50 guys left that remember them new in 1929.
AJ your opinion is respected and appreciated, it is for me always invigorating to be involved in civilized dialogue. I enjoy the perspective of others even when I’m being shot down in flames. There has been a lot of input on this car I wish there was more of this kind of dialog on other cars.
Mark S.,
I like your point of view, and I am right there with you…100% Nuf said… :)
Thanks Jon
I love love love the “Ha Dees” accessory heater in the $28K car you’ve linked to. I would buy that just to display in my living room.
The fact that lovely car brought only $28K says everything about how the market for pre-war stuff has changed. But I don’t have quite the apocalyptic view others have. Almost nobody alive today has a nostalgic connection to cars like this. The people who bid on that car are most likely die-hard gearheads who like its vintage mechanical-ness. I sort of put myself in that category.
Unfortunately it’s probably true that a lot of lower-tier prewar cars will end up unloved and eventually scrapped. Grandpa’s ’26 Whippet that he lavished time and attention on because it’s just like the one his uncle drove may get shoved outside after his death, because the garage is for lawnmowers and boxes of holiday decorations. But high-end and really interesting cars will probably always have their fans, even if the prices settle at something way below their peak when the market was driven by personal nostalgia.
Ah, guys, trust me, a car like this Packard is never going to be scrapped. In fact, any car this old that has held up so well for 80 or more years is not in any danger of being scrapped. There will always be collectors interested in this type of car. As for the “younger guys” not being into the prewar 2 cars? Not true. There are so many of us younger guys like myself who love this era. I am 40ish and I got hooked on prewar 2 cars when I was under 20 and bought my first old car, a 1938 Buick Century Opera Coupe at age 24 which I still have today. Right now, I am working on restoring my 1938 V16 Cadillac. It’s a car that I have always wanted since I was a kid and now, lucky enough to have found one at a reasonable price. I have friends even younger than me lusting to buy a prewar 2 car. I myself love the 30’s classics but I love the nickel era 20’s cars even more. My neighbor is 50 and he has a stock 1926 Ford Model T in his garage that he takes the neighborhood kids out for rides on the weekends. The little kids love it! Also, Look at the brass era cars, very few people, if any, are still around today who remember the cars when they were new and yet, people are still buying brass era cars more and more.
There are those that regard the 1930’s high end Packard as the American Rolls-Royce. If my Dad could have afforded to have the body restored, I’d still have his 1930
Packard Roadster. The syncro worked well, my Mom loved driving that car. Maroon and black. This should and will get restored. Neat find.
This Packard is in fantastic condition and must be kept as is. Apart from the ripped leather seats, I can’t see why it couldn’t be driven as is. I find it hard to think that anyone would want to ruin its originality when it appears to be totally complete which means you don’t have to go looking for parts. If there is a philanthropist out there who also reads Barnfinds and wants to buy it for me and ship it to Australia, I will take good care of it and keep it away from people wanting to destroy it.
((1) On another point, note the large plenum chamber in the centre of the inlet manifold, no doubt to smooth out the inlet air pulsations.
(2) Also note that there is no air cleaner which I think is a surprise for 1931. This year model must have been an over-run of the models of a few years before.
(3) Does anyone know exactly what is the long silver thing on the firewall is and how it works. It has a fuel filter bowl on the bottom and some copper pipes on it plus one that leads to the carburettor. Is it an newer version of a vacuum fuel pump that also uses engine vacuum?))
Both sides of this argument have made good points, I think either a restomod or full restoration are going to put anyone making the attempt underwater. Why not a sympathetic restoration to usable condition, in joy it and show it at local car shows. I’d love to own it.
My two favorite LA auto museums, the HIGH end Petersen and the low end Automobile Driving Museum have both come to the conclusion that they need to acquire and exhibit cars built since l960 if they are going to keep the doors open. I am 75 but could never muster much interest in the cars of the 20’s, let alone the brass era. Guys (and women) in their 30’s don’t really have much interest in the cars of the 30’s and 40’s, or even 50’s. So as rare and fine as this old Packard is, it won’t attract a crowd. In front of my office this morning was a ’52 Dodge pickup, much modified, in fact, all that was left of the ’52 Dodge was the sheet metal. A ’76 GM pickup frame and all that hitches to it, a GM 350 engine, power windows, painted flat black, no chrome except the modern wheels. So we say, well, the ’52 ‘Dodge pickup was one of many thousands, and otherwise would have been crushed, so resto-roding it was OK. But this Packard might have no future either as a restoration, and would clearly be a money loser.
Have you ever seen the car collection belonging to the San Francisco collage of design? ( that may not be the exact name) they have an old showroom on Van Ness in down town just up the street from the orignal building built as the Packard dealership (it is the Mercedes dealership today) it has large showroom type Windows all around. It is filled with Dusenburgs, Packards, Marmons, many many high end cars of this vintage. On most warm non rain drenched nights, there is a crowd of people standing on the sidewalk trying to get the best view of the cars. The museum is seldom open and is usually shown by appointment. I have spent hours loitering trying to obsorb the nuances of the various brands. I for one find hotrods pretty boring, they all have the same off the shelf parts assembled in various configurations from a speed shop catalog. How many small block Chevies ( they are a great engine) does one need to see? It reminds me of a high school kid that thinks he is being different by wearing jeans and a t shirt……it is a uniform…….everyone wears the same thing only in different colors.
For the price, this car is a good buy.
If you don’t think so, well, don’t buy it.
Cool …like Herman Munster.
Peter. The long silver “thing” on the fire wall is an electric 6 volt fuel pump. I have had and used many just like it.
Thank you Nomader. Most of the electric fuel pumps I have seen down here in Australia (including on my 32 DM Dodge) are the British SU types and they are hidden away out of sight along the chassis. I use the electric pump only to prime and start the engine.
Some things should be left as they were designed. I never understood the impulse to “restomod” a vintage car. If you dont want the car the way it was designed, want more modern amenities or whatnot, buy a Toyota.
I came here just to read the comments, and have really enjoyed the discourse.
Whether it makes any difference now, the auction has ended, as the car is “no longer available”. Someone made an offer that was not turned down? Highest bid was I think 9K.
A grand old automobile, to be sure, but I could do without the chicken wire covering the spot where a roll-back leather or canvas top should be. ;-)
I think pretty much all of us hope that the car found a good home, and that it will once again carry happy passengers down some tree-lined country road.
I don’t claim to know much about how this style of roof was constructed, but I suspect that chicken wire is actually part of the original build. The canvas roof would have been permanently fixed, not retractable, and would have had padding underneath that could have been supported by the chicken wire. I’m sure someone more knowledgeable than me can contradict or clarify.
Correct. I have seen wooden slates with the chicken wire over it, then padding then leather or canvas.
I owned the 1931 Packard club coup for 13 years and made it complete with tiny parts found on a 1930 parts Packard,found in a farmer’s field, that had been cut down and used as a tractor.I changed fluids,plugs and plug wires and after finishing the small parts drove it in parades and even on a 300 mi trip.I sold it to the man in Arkansas in 1985.The reason the dash looks so good is that I restored the wood and used polyurethane high gloss on it .It has a fully leather interior including the headliner.All I did was 40 years ago,which speaks to the quality of the original materials.By the way,that is an electric fuel pump,installed before I obtained the car.