1970 GTO Judge Ram Air With 120 Miles!

Judge rear

This is one of the most amazing cars I have ever seen for sale on craigslist. Thanks to reader MG, we get to see this 1970 Pontiac GTO Judge, claimed as having only 120 miles on it, for sale here in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania for – hold onto your hats – $75,000. And based on the craziness of the muscle car market, that astronomical price is actually low for this car.

1970 GTO Judge

The Judge is almost a mythical muscle car by now. This one is green (or maybe brown?) with yellow stripes and is very attractive. Only 3,629 Judge hardtops were built in 1970, and finding one in “as new” condition has to be an amazingly rare occurrence.

1970 Pontiac GTO Judge

Considering what is being offered for sale, the ad is pretty economical:

BRAND NEW CONDITION
120 MILES
400 RAM AIR III
4 SPEED
TIC TOC DASH
HOOD TACH

With this equipment, it checks off just about all the boxes for a perfectly ordered GTO Judge.

Judge grille

The seller says the car came from a museum in Florida. That’s really all the information the seller gives us. Given their mileage claim, it would be great to know more of the car’s history or if there is any documentation that might prove the mileage is correct.

Pontiac GTO Judge Paper work

The pictures include the build sheet and other paperwork, and yes, the speedometer that shows 120 miles.

1970 GTO Judge Engine

The engine compartment and interior look like new, though the seller’s pictures leave a lot to be desired. Murky is an understatement.

1970 GTO Judge Interior

I know already what everyone reading this post is thinking – “you better be able to prove it!”

1970 GTO Judge Speedometer

If this car can really be documented to have 120 miles, then my question, why is the price so low? It seems very likely that the car has not been maintained or exercised during these 45 years it has been on display or in storage, so maybe it has problems, despite its ridiculously low mileage.

Judge Tach

Sure do like the hood tach, and the Ram Air too! But come on, if you are asking someone to pay you $75,000 for your car, maybe some better pictures and a lengthier description would help you attract buyers.

00f0f_GiRlL5fboa_600x450

No matter what is going on here, if this car can be proven to have been driven only 120 miles, whomever buys this car, won’t be driving it very much anyway, so maybe the mechanical condition is not the point. And it sure seems likely that despite the seemingly high price, this unusual find will sell quickly. Unfortunately, it seems a likely target for a high end dealer to buy, spiff up, and bring to one of the big auctions for a pay day.

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Comments

  1. David Wilk Member

    I do wonder what is up with the hood, literally, it does not look good on the left side. Maybe because it was displayed with the hood open for years, the spring is off on one side?

    • RayT Member

      Fit on trunk and doors is a little “off” as well. All in all, I’m a bit suspicious, even though I remember GM cars of that era sometimes suffering from “gaposis.”

      Whoever is seriously interested definitely need to check for repaired structural damage and deformities before shelling out the loot.

      In any case, one would have to have lots and lots of documentation, not just a “professional appraisal.” My first question is always: why is the mileage so low? Yes, there are cars that collectors stash away dreaming of Big Bucks in the future, but there are plenty of high-performance low-milers that suffered damage from misuse and/or accidents at early ages.

    • Dan Belainsky

      I’d have to agree with the possibility it was hit and fixed shortly after purchase.
      That front end picture shows something that the seller is not mentioning. Looks like a bad fit it quick job!
      Just saying….if it looks like a goat…it probably is a goat.

      • leiniedude leiniedude Member

        Here comes the Judge.

    • Jack

      That’s the first thing I noticed being misaligned, “the hood.” Also, I don’t recall the Pontiac Judge ever having a tic toc dash. Mopar and Chevy had a tic tock tach. Judges had a hood tach and a clock in the dash. This new condition Judge with 120 miles sounds like a quick flip. If it sounds to good to be true, than it probably is.

      • Jack

        As I look back at a picture of the “Judge” interior dash, I forgot, there is a timer for 1/4 mile runs, on the dash clock, it was called the “rally clock” (rpo 484) when ordered with the optional hood tach, which was one of the options offered from the “rally guage package” when ordering a “Judge”, otherwise, the other option was no clock and an 8000rpm tach was in its place, or there was nothing at all, a black plastic cover.

      • OhU8one2

        The misaligned hood immediately throws up a red flag. Which now puts me in the position that the owner or seller is NOT to be trusted. Do your research and homework. Ask a lot of questions and listen to your head and not your heart. You can still fall in love with the car, just wait to get to know her first.

  2. patrol

    Museum Find !!!, need to go back to the museum. Once the road its loosing value with every mile you put on it

  3. leiniedude leiniedude Member

    Posted on Craigslist? Its got to be some ones idea of a joke. Maybe its another plastic model !!!!!!!

  4. jpvogl

    Agree about the hood; what’s up with that? Cool car, unfortunate color. Had a poster of an orange one when I was a kid. What’s a “tic-toc” dash? And was (is?) a 5K redline typical for American V-8s?

    • Ed P

      For a high performance v8 of this era, 5200 rpm would be about the usual red line. The more ordinary v8’s of the day would top out about 4400-4800 rpm.

    • Howard A Member

      Hi jpvogl, this is not a “tic-toc-tach”. Tic-toc-tachs were a dash mounted tach with a clock in the middle as part of the “rally pak”. I believe only Oldsmobile ( and some Mopars) had them. http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx285/ROCKET-VAPOR/IMG_0744.jpg

      • Mike H. Mike H.

        The AMC Javelin/AMX from 1971-1974 also featured the “Tic-Toc-Tach”

  5. MH

    If this car checks out its cheap at 75K. It would bring 200K at a big auction. I always wanted a judge but if I ever get one I want one I can drive and have fun with.

  6. Jim

    I want to see proof of everything before I believe anything. Take a good look at the 2 on the speedometer and tell me what you think. A telltale sign of a kicked clock is misaligned digits and craigslist,really? Is that where you sell museum pieces these days?

  7. MountainMan

    If this is legit the seller would really benefit from some help properly marketing this car. Some good pictures and the story of this car would really go a long way to legitimize this goat. As mentioned, I wonder if it currently runs or not. If it has been sitting in a museum somewhere for decades it is likely best if it returns to that type of setting. If I had this car and chose to sell it without the help of an auction company or anybody else I would want to at least offer high res pics with good lighting and some back story of how it came to be that it has the low mileage, why its for sale now, when it was last started etc. It is nice to look at, these are really cool cars and like MH I sure wish I had one that I could take out and enjoy!

    • Larry

      I agree too many questions with no or poor answers.

  8. Dolphin Member

    I can’t see it unless you want it for your museum and won’t be driving it. Like patrol said, as soon as you drive it the value drops.

    Definitely agree with David—the gaps and fit are awful, the worst on any “new” car I have ever seen. Both the hood and the trunk are way off, and you can’t tell about the doors because the photos are so bad. The bad gaps and fit are a big red flag. On a 120 mile car the only logical explanation is that the factory did it that way, and I don’t think so. The car has been messed with.

    The new SCM Guide has these at $59K. The paperwork looks like it might be OK but you would want to know that for sure before handing over anything above that number. But the color is really underwhelming, so…..no.

  9. jim s

    i too wonder why this is not at a high line auction. if it is for real then the asking price, while a lot of money, seems like a good deal. but i would want to drive it. great find.

  10. jeff

    I agree with all —- any person who has Cable TV and has $ 40-60,000 to spend on a muslecar ( from a museum ) — would have the intelligence to make sure it is running and then bring it to 1 of the auction houses ( Mecum , Barrett-Jackson,etc )
    ….. If they are looking for a quick Flip

    • Rspcharger Rspcharger

      I bet the Mecum scouts pick up on it quick.

  11. Dontiac

    They rolled the odometer back to zero when they restored the car and it’s been driven 120 since.

    Baja Gold with Sandlewood interior.

    • Steve

      My thoughs exactly!

    • dj

      That’s exactly what they did. I couldn’t agree more.

  12. Rick

    Craigslist costs the seller nothing in fees (unlike car auctions and ebay); plus you don’t have to wait around for the auction, especially if you want to move it now.

    • leiniedude leiniedude Member

      Rick, I agree that CL is a good deal, but it is not a five year old snowmobile. Hemming’s is reasonable and I am sure it would sell fast for way more than the asking price.

  13. JW

    I tend to agree with Dontiac that the museum had restored it on the cheap then rolled the odometer back to “0” then put 120 miles on it. Then sold it super cheap to this guy now he wants to make his 10 to 15K on craigslist.

  14. Sukey

    As they said on the x files
    Trust no one

  15. off2hcky

    Mecum just sold one for $105,000 so this is a deal! Let me jump right on that one. pfft! If it looks like a fish, smells like a fish, oh wait, GTO not barracuda!

  16. Jim

    It might be that the hood was sprung from being improperly closed. I had a ’68 and I learned the hard way that you had to push to hood to the rear of the car while closing it to keep from wrinkling the hood. I was able to get it repaired but it always looked the way this one does. I agree with the assessment that it was restored and the odometer was rolled back to zero. There are too many questionable things for it to be factory original.
    I think I would want the seller to pull the gas tank out and show me the build sheet. If the car really has only 120 miles on it, the build sheet will be pristine, if it has more there will be rust on it and possible pieces missing.

  17. off2hcky

    Actually just googled the VIN and came up with a couple of links where this car was listed in FL and PA. (at 65K) The FL link has a lot of really nice pics of the car and GUESS WHAT IT SAYS. 31 mile restore!! SO yeah, not a low mileage survivor!! But if it is truly this nice, probably still worth it.

    Like 1
  18. Frankie Paige

    The ad in Pittsburgh doesn’t say original miles, or for that matter restored with odometer set at 0, still, nice car

  19. DREW V.

    Has anybody here actually read the ad??? It does NOT say only 120 original miles, or that it is an original,unrestored, It specifically says “BRAND NEW CONDITION 120 MILES” So why all the negativity???

    As the old adage goes, “A wise man speaks because he has something to say, A fool speaks because he has to say something”…

    Like 1
    • Larry

      first thing I saw. “like new”. flush it. run away. kinda like the “first Firebird” from the garage in CA Valley.

  20. Nessy

    This is total BS in everyway. The Pontiac guys would all have known for years about a car like this in hiding. You don’t just put a GTO away brand new without someone knowing about it. Why now, does it come up for sale and why not at one of the auction houses? Most of the time, I do believe low mile stories but this one is impossible. No clear photos, no true paperwork proving anything and no more Pontiac dealers with proof, nothing, zip. If this was for real, the car would bring alot more than 75g through one of the auctions or a private sale. I read the ad clear and the way he talks about the car, he makes it sound like it’s a brand new “original” car. Look close at that one paper where is says the car had 31 miles in 2011. Now, it has 120 miles? So it sat for 40 years and then they put 100 miles on it?

    • Mike

      I actually bought a 63 Ford Falcon that only had a little over 1000 miles on it. The Lady that owned it, her son bought right after he got out of basic training and was killed in Vietnam, so her husband put the car up on blocks in their garage and it set there until I first saw it in 1979. The husband died in the first part of 1971, well anyway we went to Church with this lady, she did not drive, never did. Different people from Church would pick her up for Church, and her Daughter always took her to the store or wherever she needed to go. Well one day I was over working on her lawnmower for her and I saw the car, I asked her about it, she told me the story and I asked her if she wanted to sell it. She talked it over with her daughter none of her kids wanted it. Dad and I towed it out of the garage and 6 months later I sold it for 8K. Sometime I wished I had kept that little Falcon, it was Purple w/white top with white interior.

  21. Dolphin Member

    Good point, Drew, but there’s still too much that is negative about the car, especially at $75K. The gaps and fit are still bad and that still raises a red flag. What shop would release a restored car with those glaring problems, and what else was done badly in the restoration?

    The only way I can see this deal working is if an expert on these cars went there and found that the car is straight, and the fit and gaps can be fixed without too much time and $$$, and that the rest of the restoration was top notch. Would that require that the car be put on a frame machine? For me, Yes.

    Then a buyer would still have to convince himself that a restored car that needed to go on a frame machine and needed fixes was still worth $75K and would be a better deal than maybe an original car in #2 condition that the SCM Guide has being worth $59K.

    I think there’s a reason it’s on CL instead of at B-J.

  22. Joe

    Car VIN shows up in two other website ads. One describes it as a “museum” car, which to me means original and unrestored and the ad describes it that way, and the other ad describes it as a nut and bolt restoration. Looks like starting bid on the ebay ad was 65K about 1 year ago.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-PONTIAC-GTO-JUDGE-RAM-AIR-III-4-SPEED-MINT-FINEST-GTO-JUDGES-EXIST-/131322867498?rmvSB=true

    The other ad has same VIN and car looks the same and describes it as a nut and bolt restoration.

    http://www.2040-cars.com/car_info/?id=702036

    So, what is up? My guess is, as others have said, that it is a nut and bolt restoration with odometer reset with 120 miles after restoration, it may have been in a “museum” of some sort, though the question is how is a museum in Florida defined?

  23. Blindmarc

    The PHS would have the vin on file, and be able to trace its lineage. I think this might be a Ted Vernon car out of the Miami area. He’s another big shot flipper.

  24. Kincer Dave Member

    Something is fishy I think, however some of the gaps look better in the pics of the other ads, I’d want someone to dig into the history of this if I was gonna put down 75k on it.

  25. jpvogl

    Thanks, Howard and Ed; always enjoy learning new stuff! I’ve never driven a manual V-8, only 4-cylinders with a stick. My present one redlines at 7200 and that 5K seemed low. And the more comments I read on this post, the worse this goat smells!

  26. piper62j

    First of all, I can tell you that when you popped the hood on these cars (brand new) the open lines were perfect all along the front edge over the bumper.. This one is not..Also, I agree that the ad stated “in brand new condition”.. Door and body lines are off slightly unlike factory new.. The factory used jigs to align the doors while the assembler bolted the hinges in place.. I have seen this at a GM plant..

    Seller will probably get what he wants for it, but it won’t by my mortgage..

    Nice find though.. I like it..

  27. Nessy

    I would pay 75g for that original orange GTO Judge convertible barn find featured here last month before I paid 75g for this one.

  28. dan

    I just wondered if its like new condition wheres the carpet

  29. piper62j

    Rspcharger.. Good job finding the EBay listing.. I had looked at it then, but unfortunately, at my age, I forgot about it..

    The seller is a flipper.. Nothing wrong with that.. Profit is the name of the game.

  30. DANA HENNESSY

    hello let me start by saying if my ad is misleading in any way im sorry i bought this car sight unseen from a dealer in florida i paid a company good money to research it the girl at the dealership told me they are original miles the title reads the mileage im not a flipper i didnt buy it on e bay i found it in an ad im selling all of my cars to build a new house without a mortgage the car is very nice but it does bum me out to be thought of misleading i too am a car guy

    • Joe

      Dana, appreciate your note and I hope you can understand. You can see why I am confused given that the link below to an ad says the car was a restoration and cost 100K to restore and has 31 miles at the time of the ad. Did the car have 31original miles and also was it nut and bolt restored? Or, was it restored and odometer set to zero, which some people do. Any clarification would be appreciated.

      Here is the link to the website ad with your VIN. Below is the copy and paste of the ad in case the website goes down:

      http://www.2040-cars.com/car_info/?id=702036

      Classic Cars of Sarasota
      6235 McIntosh Road
      Sarasota, FL 34238

      The real deal 1970 Pontiac GTO RAM Air 3 – 4 speed Judge well over 100k spent on this frame off nut and bolt restore. No expenses spared and on the of finest GTO Judges to exsist. PHS Documentation and all recipts on this 31 mile restore. If you are looking for a blue chip investment Pontiac look no further. SEE THE VIDEO of this and all out cars at…

    • JW

      Dana now you have me really confused as your AD stated it was bought from a museum in Florida and now you say it was bought sight unseen from a dealership, which is it ? This is some of what leads us to pick on some ADs that are on craigslist and Ebay. Enlighten me if you will. No offense intended just confused as to how you acquired the car and in what condition.

      • Joe

        JW, the statement about museum purchase has been removed from the CL ad, as well the the statement about it having 120 miles.

  31. piper62j

    Dana.. We critique cars on this site.. It’s never a personal attack on someone who is selling, but a blog to buyers providing valuable information. People all too often are mislead into purchasing a bad deal..

    We who classify ourselves as gear heads have truly been wrenching mechanicals and stretching sheet metal all our lives and freely offer up our knowledge to those who hang out here on Barn Finds. Some individuals call themselves car guys but have never broke a knuckle open or sliced a hand on jagged edges loaded with grease or paint..

    So, don’t be offended by what’s written here or take it personally because the intent with criticism is solely to protect those who are in the hobby for fun and enjoyment..

    • leiniedude leiniedude Member

      Well stated Piper, I could not agree more. Thank you. From a man with many scars, have a great weekend, Mike.

  32. piper62j

    Thanks Leiniedude..

  33. SRT8

    I think not

  34. John Newell

    Pretty ugly colour. Vomit. Never seen a Judge look that ugly.

  35. Mike

    Something that could be wrong with the hood could be that the hood supports are out of adjustment. Them might have replaced them or people turning them some, or if the paint was touched up some they could just not have the hood centered correctly.

  36. dj

    What’s wrong with it is that the hood hinge rusted and they tried shutting it. Bowed the hood. I did it on my 70 as well. I’m sorry but all this is fishy for a car with low miles. They zeroed them after the restoraration. It was done to a 72 GTO that I bought. The seller told me that up front.

  37. Capt. kirk

    Did any of you see the red numeral located in the odometer,that indicates it was a replacement.Ran into this lots at the dealer.When speedo had to be changed it came with red numeral in odometer to signify it had been changed.

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