Of all the words used to describe collectible cars in ads, “original” comes up most. Original is a great term to use, but the definition of original is different for just about everyone you meet. Some think that a car needs to be in factory condition down to the spark plugs to earn the title. Others think it means that the car hasn’t fallen under Cousin Cletus’s torch after he spent a drunken weekend watching a Fast and Loud marathon. This 1939 Ford Deluxe Fordor, being sold on craigslist near Riverside, California, falls somewhere in the middle. Advertised as a barn find (in Riverside?), and being completely original, does this originality justify a $15,500 price tag? Thanks go to Ikey H. for the find!
As the years pass, it is hard to keep a car “all original.” Wear items need to be replaced, accidents happen, kids go through the interior like little velociraptors, and vermin find ways to turn your classic into a condo. Before you know it, your “original” car is like George Washington’s axe. A few cars do survive relatively intact. However, there is always an amazing back story to these vehicles, and the seller only tells us that this car was part of the collection of Harold Weimer. Searching the internet for this person’s name turned up nothing. I assume he was a famous automobile collector in that area.
So, for sake of argument, let’s say that the term “original” means that the vehicle is still made up of nearly all the parts it left the factory with. Allowances can be made for wear items. This is basically the definition for the Early Ford V-8 Club of America’s Rouge classification for vehicles participating in judging at national meets. In judging, cars competing for this award can actually earn separate certifications for the interior, exterior, and the running gear. The Early Ford V-8 Club supports awards in these areas to preserve the few cars left with mostly original parts. The reason is rather self serving in a good way. Cars like this one are a tremendously valuable reference for judging. Much of the information found in their exhaustive restoration books for Fords between 1932 and 1953 can be traced back to exhaustive examination of original cars and trucks.
So, if judged by Early Ford V-8 Club standards, would this car win any Rouge awards? If going by the 90% standard, the exterior would likely qualify. The seller tells us that the paint is original to the car. That might be true. However, the paint looks to be dull in some pictures, but glossy in others dependent on the light and angle. What we don’t see is the cracking that seems to be prevalent in the paint of cars this age. The body parts would logically also be original to the car if the paint was as well. Panel alignment looks good, and there are no glaring signs of replacement.
Under the hood looks, nearly everything looks good to go as well. The original Flathead V-8 is still in the car according to the seller’s claims. Wear items such as the belts and hoses are replacements allowed in the V-8 Club rules. However, I’d bet you could get farther along with the judges if reproduction items were substituted in place of the NAPA style items currently under the hood. The wiring harness looks to be original, but I believe the coil placement is incorrect. Perhaps one of our resident Ford experts will chime in to give us their thoughts. As for the rest of the driveline, we are kind of in the dark without detailed pictures. To be fair, there are no clues evident that changes have been made to these parts either.
It is the interior that would likely come up short for a Rouge Award. The headliner is gone along with at least one door panel. It seems that rodents, moths, and decades of wear and tear have left little to repair in this area. While expensive, I think the only option any future buyer has with this car is to replace the entire interior with a kit from LeBaron Bonney Company. A complete kit will run you around $4,500, but this company is known among Ford restorers for having the most authentic reproduction interiors. A completely stock interior and drivetrain with a period correct interior would still make for a neat car. Two out of three ain’t bad!
So, if the car is as original as claimed, is it worth $15,500? If it were a convertible, convertible sedan, or a coupe, then the answer would be yes. For a Fordor? That is a tough call. Fordors with older restorations can be had in great shape for prices ranging from $12,000 up to $20,000. A father and son around here purchased a very nicely kept 1940 Ford Fordor for $10,000. It was even equipped with a Columbia two speed rear end that they were clueless about at the time of purchase! I know which car I would prefer in my garage, and I wouldn’t be writing a big, fat check for upholstery either…
Is dealing with all this originality worth the extra cost? Let us know your thoughts in the comments.
Jeff, there are barns in Riverside, or at least used to be! And if not exactly in Riverside, neighboring areas had plenty of farms and ranches before they were built/paved over….
Judging by the photos, I don’t buy “original paint” either. My guess would be an older repaint. Since “older” covers a 79-year span, there would still be a good chance for patina to accumulate….
My only comment on the price is that it’s too high for me. If I could afford it, and afford a LeBaron Bonney interior, fresh paint and the myriad of bits this car would almost certainly need — I’ve never trusted “runs and drives great!” — the listing would already be gone!
P.S. I knew a lot of “collectors” in the SoCal area (and knew there were plenty more, of course) but never heard of Harold Weimer. He certainly owned a car I’d love to own, though!
I’m no Ford expert, but the ignition coil & wiring and radiator hoses sure look sort of jury-rigged to me. One has to wonder what other corners were cut or issues just plastered over. Combined with four-doors, I’d have to say this is a crack-pipe price.
I won’t speak to the price as I’m no authority there, but I like it. Flathead, running boards look good, interior seems fairly complete and who doesn’t like suicide doors?
If it was mine, I’d take it back to original as I could, fix what needs fixing and replace those parts that are missing. Clean it out and clean it up and drive it.
This ad is over 3 weeks old, so nobody apparently thinks it’s the deal of the century. Awhile back I posted up a pic of the ’39 fordor I worked over five or so years ago when sales of these were a bit stronger. I bought it in SoCal from a young man who hadn’t had much luck getting his $10k ask locally. To me it was about right. It had a rebuilt engine, new glass all around, a near new LB interior, dual exhaust, and rebuilt brakes. All it lacked for dependable driving were tires and a fresh radiator. I sold it a couple years later, back to another California guy, for 13k. The market is softer now, and this black car is a long way from the “nice” that mine was. But hey, he’s gotta take his shot don’t he?
Definitely the wrong coil, and the upper rad hoses are aftermarket. Other than that it could be an original Deluxe ’39. It could be the original engine as well. In ’39 a lot of Ford engines had ’91A’ cast onto the heads or into the heads in much smaller letters (Mercury had ’99A’) but that would require someone having a closer look. It seems to me that the oil filter was optional until ’41 or ’42. I would run one regardless.
Nice car. A little out of my budget but someone’s bound to have a good time with it. I would freshen this car up and drive it. I’m not sure how much that would require but it would be a driver….
Uncle Bob & Geomechs, Have just about told you all you need to know about this car. With that said, you should be able to conclude, It is basically an original old Ford , in above average shape, but not worth close to the asking price.
Just a word or two about putting words in the seller’s mouth, which happens often here on BF.
The seller didn’t say that Howard Weimer was famous or even well-known, he only identified the man as his neighbor. He also didn’t specifically claim that the car is wearing original paint – yes, he said that the car was completely original, which obviously excludes wear items like tires, battery, radiator hoses, etc,, but in many, many collector car ads also includes paint as a wear item. That may not be how you and I would use the terms, but it’s extremely common usage. When a car has original paint, it’s almost always called out very specifically. If not, I assume it’s not original.
I also think you could easily negotiate this down to a reasonable price. He says OBO right in the ad, meaning that his ask isn’t his bottom line. Can’t beat him up for that until you call and get the lay of the land.
Earl Schieb original. NAPA under the hood. Interior needs expensive help. I would pass. Four doors are a lot cheaper on the east coast.
What Bob said…..and it’s hard to get $5000 if you start out at $4000….
Rouge Award? In reference to the River Rouge plant? I’m a Chevy guy, somebody ‘splain this to me……
Word around town is the owner read this article and took Jeff’s thoughts into some serious consideration; leaving extra room for you to slap some LeBaron Bonney interior in that puppy upon purchase. click the link below. It could be a hell of a buy for some lucky ford enthusiast out there.
https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/d/riverside-1939-ford-deluxe/6973257750.html