When it comes to old buses, I’m at a bit of a loss as to what you do with them. On the one hand, I love their art deco styling and acres of glass, making them far more attractive than any piece of public transit ought to be. On the other, they take up significant room and are not entirely practical to use on a regular basis, negating two of the usual “must-haves” when considering taking on a project. This 1971 Crown Supercoach here on craigslist in San Diego is a former school bus that remains in remarkably preserved condition for $3,800.
The colors are a dead giveaway that this Supercoach is a former school bus. It’s sort of amazing that the yellow-with-black-stripes color combination has remained synonymous with school buses for all of these years. Check out the little details, like the stacked taillights and the curved rear glass – these are the small details I love about a utilitarian people-mover like this, and the styling cues you rarely see on anything modern.
The seats have obviously been removed, and the familiar “humps” over the rear wheels are now visible. You never wanted to be stuck with those seats in elementary school, but particularly in high school as your growing legs made it uncomfortable to sit with your knees at your chin. The seller mentions the prospect of using this former bus as an R/V conversion, which strikes me as the most sensible use of a huge project like this.
The Supercoach was primarily used in West Coast communities, so it’s of little surprise to see it in San Diego. I’m curious as to where it’s been hiding out, considering the preserved condition would indicate it hasn’t been converted to alternative uses in the years since it was retired from school duty. I doubt a school district wanted this Supercoach taking up room in their parking lots, but stranger things have happened. How would you use it? Thanks to Barn Finds reader Jack for the find.
This is a cool bus, for a ’71, looks right out of the 50’s ( and they didn’t change much) I grew up in the midwest, and rarely rode a school bus, but all we had were the standard issue backfiring IH Loadstars. Unless you plan on opening a Bible camp, a motorhome is the only answer here. Most of these had pancake motors, motors tilted on their side. Not sure if the Cummins was like that, can’t find any pics, I know the older Hall-Scott gas jobs were. I always wondered how motors on their sides got adequate lubrication. Apparently, they did, as these racked up millions of miles. This one has the 290/10 speed, the most durable, most used combination in trucks, so can’t go wrong there, except for it’s 6-8 mpg fuel economy and that tandem rear axle gonna hop, unless one is a tag. Motorhome, and it’s ok to call it a “Cummings”.
The Cummins MMB was the original pancake diesel. Visually it’s obviously of the same family as the 6BT, but on its side and in the middle too, ahead of those two drive axles. Weirdest thing.
Of course, this being a 71 means it preceded the the big strike of 72, which a lot of folks claim was when quality went down from exceptional to fantastic.
Those are double cylinder heads like all 855’s and the earlier small bore N series diesels. They were built 30 years or more prior to the BT series engines. They started at about 180 HP (Howard?) then were common at 220 HP. These engines are easily twice the size of a 6BT. They became the 855 cu inch displacement in the late 50’s that were built up to 400 horsepower. The orignal 6BT was 360 cu inches and has individual cylinder heads. I have a handful of the 4BT versions with only 4 cylinders too. They did also build 4 cyl versions of the 855 engine (2 cyl heads 2 cylinder each) that were used in generators and equipment.
The N-series Cummins was available in a variety of hp ratings. There was a 220 BCII at the local college where I was an instructor teaching journeyman upgrading night courses. I checked the code sheet and came up with 95 different fuel codes that could be used on that engine CPL. It ranged from 108 hp @ 1600 rpm to 250 @ 2100. 220 was a very common naturally aspirated setting.
I couldn’t remember the designation of the earlier Cummins small bore engine last night. It is the NH…..743 cu in engine. They moved 80,000 GVW trucks all over the country even before freeways.
I couldn’t remember the designation of the earlier Cummins small bore engine last night. It is the NH…..743 cu in engine. They moved 80,000 GVW trucks all over the country even before freeways. Geomechs is on the money as usual…….220 Cummins built the prosperity we have today moving 80,000 of whatever wherever we needed it.
Some one put a lotta effort into making one of these into a motorhome.
Search “Brown Crown Skoolie” and you can find it.
Photo of that repurposed bus is from the internet.
I have a 1967 Crown Super Coach . I converted the 22 cummins to a Big Cam 400 Turbo cummins with a 741 Automatic Allison Trans. It is awesome and I am in the middle of remodleing the interior for the second time. I need an E2 air break peddle treadle valve, my is leaking badly and finally will not hold air. All I can fin on the internet are E6 or E7 . Can I replace the E2 with an E6? Where can I find an E2? I have been looking. Thanks for your help. Armand Blais
It’d be a cool RAGBRAI bus but a bit too far for me.
Surprising that this didn’t end up as someone’s parts shed. Would make a cool RV project for sure. Missing title may pose a little problem.
Wowie Zowie!
What ever you do with it and plan on driving it you will need to change the colors. Doesn’t matter if it is restored AS a school bus or camper it cannot be yellow and resemble a school bus. A private person cannot have one…..and besides that would be a bit weird. Not sure I would want that stigma trying to pick up little kids….haha!
Best to keep it in California and use it as a movie rental vehicle. Cinema Vehicles may already have a dozen. They have several two acre lots with everything known to man. When watching any movie it’s companies like these that supply what ever the director calls for. He will call traffic (at the movie co.) The person in charge sweats the details and has to locate what ever. Calls a company like CVS.
Many times if it cannot be found it is made. CVS and companies like it handle this as well. Too much fun
Are you indicating it would be illegal for an individual to drive a yellow bus with black accents? Or do you just mean inappropiate?
Yes…..in several states I know off for sure. Doesn’t mean that some people don’t get away with it for a while.
Ray Claridge. My dad knew him well in the ’90’s
As a kid I rode this type of bus to Skool, u can see spelling is where I excelled.
Then had one very questionable experience in a Greyhound while riding from Southern California to Northern California at age 19. Swore I would not be caught dead in any bus ever again.
Fate stepped in, and with a giant wave of its hand, from age 22 and the next 40 years I drove 3.2 million miles in 40 and 60 foot city buses. Yikes, looks nightmareish now that I see it in print. Along with 1.75 million passengers, all according to the bean counters at work.
I can tell you first hand what it’s like to drive one of these buses. At a glance I see a bus that has huge potential for an RV.
A substantial amount of work is ahead of new owner to make it a home away from home. But can be customized.
Climbing hills with that 290 will be sure, but slow. Tail swing, turning corners will be a beginners first hurdle. Air brakes can be a challenge. Getting class B drivers license is advised.
These buses are generally well made. My gut saz a lot of adventures await its new owner with time, money and patience.
I would love to tackle, but my wife would make me live in it, on the other side of town.
The ride should be looked into. Many ride on airbags. Replacing those might go along way to bring up comfort level, because this is not an MCI.
The MCI is faster and more everything, especially the price tag. But don’t compare against something that is likely unrealistic for most of us.
Think of as a new horizons. Check around for knowledgeable Diesel mechanics and shops who can advise you.
I like and have owned several of these as well as MCI’s. One of these I owned came from the US Army. It was specked to move soldiers from Ft Irwin to Norton AFB. It was a very special bus, had a 6-71 TAA pancake engine making 38o HP, an Allison 5 speed automatic, air suspension, an auxillery Perkins diesel driving an independent air conditioner, a higher roof line for better head room and high back transit seats. The Chino factory was closed but there were a few old employees that kept the doors open to sell parts and do some service work. Common school buses like this were sold by the hundreds 20-30 years ago. The roofline is low, making it not the best to convert to motorhome use. Many had 6-71N Detroit’s with manual transmissions. All were “Pancake” engines and the 3 axles like this were full tandem drives. The Cummins with the 10 speed was a great power combination particularly in hilly areas. Off course, Crown built many fire engines and other types of equipment. One that I owned had been an old studio truck. It had a large talk body built behind the driver’s station like a van body on a cargo truck and a hydraulic lift gate. It seated 6 besides the driver and was used to move heavy camera equipment and the like. They also made mobile libraries and post office sub stations with similar bodied vehicles. Some of these 290 Cummins were big cam engines that wern’t Bad on fuel. I was at an auction where the shop had installed a 400 big cam. The drivers really liked that one. For a motorhome conversion best to stay away from these purpose built school busses, the roof is just too low unless you are short. An over the road bus like an MCI is a much better candidate with higher rooflines and under bus storage to install your utilities in. The more conventional drive is also easier to maintain than these lay down engines…….although the laydown’s are easy to remove. I have an old buddy out in the desert that must have 50 of them that he uses to store parts in. I have seen them sell for 500.00 dirrect from the school districts.
Is the roof actually low, or the floor just too high? Seems to me that most school buses have a high center of gravity and reduced headroom due to their design.
Probably a little of each. Some buses had a center isle that was lowered allowing greater headroom when walking to your seat but it was narrow and not very helpful for a bus conversion. It would drop between the frame rails.
Nice find Jeff. Projects like this should really be reserved for people who have very very deep pockets. I’ve had my share with projects like this with a gorgeous 87 MCI Classic.
The bus I had required two 12 volt batteries that died about a month after I bought it. Being a bus needs an enormous amount of power to start the 6V. All 24 volts. Huge monetary setback there. Then it required some other work ( Can’t remember now as this was about 10 years ago) $1000 dollar repair bill. 7000 A year to insure this thing.
It would have been more than double if I were to carry passengers. ( I am a Coach bus driver and so that’s what I do for living.)
A month later, the 6V wouldn’t start, just kept cranking, it was the starter now. Installed the starter was 800 dollars. 650 dollars to tow the dam thing. I made the best decision of my entire life. I called Tuminos heavy towing, and paid 650 bucks to tow it to the junk yard..I sold it for pennies on the pound. Lost my dam shirt. The worst decision of my life? Buying a bus.
A friend of mine has a 1965 GMC fishbowl and while it’s reliable, he says every time it needs something it’s $700.
TWO OPTIONS:
1) Gut it…and make it an in-law suite.
2) Fix ‘rr up…and get the old band back together. Just what the world needs…another Styx tribute band.
Noe wait a minute here! I used to tour the
country on something a lot like this. The
bandleader I worked for had a bus almost
like this one. It was fairly reliable and got
us to the show on time–unless something broke and we had to be towed
to the next town. The bus he had was well used when he got it so repairs were
somewhat frequent. There were 2 sets
of bunks in the rear that slept 6 in some
semblance of comfort. Anyone else who
didn’t call Dibbs on an open bunk made
do sleeping on one of 2 small couches
on each side of the aisle. The 2 tables
behind the driver held 4 places for us to
eat our take out and watch the world go
by. Showering and other hygiene related
items were done at truck stops or when
we stopped and got motel rooms. The
owner had a pretty good eye for color
as our bus was dark red with a white top
and wheels. It also had some speed lines
painted on it that started at the doors and
trailed back to about the middle of the
coach. Those speed lines didn’t help get
us to the next town any faster but they
sure set our bus apart from any other.
Man do I miss those days!
It would need a repower to be a usable motor home. It was slow in 1971 and it would be just plain dangerous today. The brakes would need an upgrade as well, which might mean a new set of axles. So to convert it to a motor home you would keep the shell and ditch everything else, unless you did the minimum and just tooled down to your local park a few times a year. It would be a monumental and expensive task.
That is ridiculous, this likely has SQHD rear ends….great air brakes and good steering. You could increase the power if you like but everything else is up to even today’s safety standards for HD trucks. You would need to see that it was maintained like anything but safety wise there would not be a problem. The laydoen engine configuration used normal Diesel engines with different oui pan, oil pump pickup and some other accessories so you could change it out to a more modern engine or being a Cummins 855 this could be upgraded to 400 or so hp………
I have seen blogs where an ambitious owner raised the roof of a classic ride like this, to increase the interior headroom and make for a more comfortable motorhome conversion. A bit shocking, really, since the time/money spent could have easily bought a more modern and purpose-built rig.
But you can never predict what passions live in the minds of others. This is a stylish old bus, hope it finds a great home and regularly sees the open road!
On a more square shaped bus it is easier…….I have seen there raised to but tough work. As to a more modern rig, most are junk……this has a real semi engine and running gear, not a repurposed pickup engine. They are heavier and usually properly geared to the job they are built for. Much safer in an accident because the DOT standards for a people moving bus are much higher than a motorhome. My MCI C would get over 10MPG and easily pull a heavy trailer at 70MPH that most motorhome could only dream about.
YES. I went “light” a bit more than a year ago, picking up a really nice ’91 Foretravel built on an Oshkosh chassis. Runs down the road very well, and also right at 10MPG. I do set the cruise at 65 though, just not in much of a rush, I guess. I don’t have space for a bigger unit like your MCI, and really like the features in the Grand Villa. Along the time I was snooping around for a coach, I did see some really nice Wanderlodges, but again, most were just too big for my space/needs.
My brother has a 78 F-350 4×4 school bus converted into a camping rig, it came out of Wyoming as I recall. Still sports the yellow-black paint,he did remove the lettering and has never been hassled about the colors. It’s been to a lot of states including Alaska. He reports to getting plenty of looks when its parked in front of a liquor store.
It is illegal in California and Idaho………probably depends on the state. The ex-military green and blue buses sell for a premium because they don’t have to be repainted. The rafters here in Idaho and the farm labor contractors use them in California.
Throw Wisconsin in the pile Dave.
I have a similar motor home. Mine is a Bluebird Wanderlodge which is built on a bluebird schoolbus chassis. It is a single axle and it weighs 36000 pounds. It is very slow . This one would be heavier and slower. And to just slide a big Cam Cummins in there would involve rengineering and cutting apart the entire bus, and the axles and transmissions would never be up to the task. They would have been just heavy in 1971 to match the horsepower of the motor and the typical road speeds of the day. So no, not ridiculous.
That too is a ridiculous idea. The engine in these comes out in a cradle and the dimensions on a big cam are the same as a small cam. Many of these later buses came with a big cam engine. They use Fuller transmissions good for 1200 ft lbs of torque and the SQHD differential is good for more than that. (My 1988 Autocar with a 450 HP cat came with them) My buddy also has a Bluebird Wanderlodge………but it is a rear engined coach built on a transit chassis, 6 speed Allison, a 450 HP 8v92 TAA. Most were built on school bus chassis and had anemic front engine 3208 V8 engine designed for medium trucks that was low horsepower and troublesome. Again, this bus has a real heavy duty engine producing over 1000 ft lbs of torque at a comfortable 1800 or less RPM. 290 Cummins, both large and small cam were the workhorse of freight companies for decades. These are much more stoutly built than a common school bus built on a medium chassis. They were also much more expensive than a common Chev or other chassis school bus.
It’s a pancake 220 with maybe 600 pounds of torque. It will have a radiator transmission and driveline to match. And you are going to slide a big cam in there sideways with no mods and call it done? I don’t think so, but I look forward to you buying it and proving me wrong. You may want to compare the back end of that little Crown to the back of a big tandem pusher motorhome before you get your wallet out though.
The engine in this is a 290. 220’s were long gone by the time these were built. The early ones frequently came with 220’s later they had 250’s or Detroit power……..the 290’s had nearly 1000 ft lbs of torque. As I said, I have seen 400 big cams in them as well as 335 hp Cummins engines. These later buses were built with 290 and 300 big cam engines. The “big cam” label designated an engine with an upgraded cam making broader torque than the “small cam” resulting in better fuel economy and easier drive ability. The 300 was about the same engine only with an additional intercooler installed. We changed many small cam semi engines to big cam to upgrade them. It improved the fuel economy a couple of miles per gallon and was a simple swap in pre computer days. The 335 version was the hot rod of the small cam engine but they would heat quickly requiring a skilled driver. I bought many surplus 250 big cam engines from the army (they used them in the M900 series trucks) , if they had oil sprayers on the pistons, they could be made into 400Hp without much trouble. Some had the oil sprayer blocks that they could be added to. There is nothing in the back of the Crown bus. The engine is under the floor in the center and the differential is far ahead of the rear. I have seen guys cut the rear off Crown’s making it into a large door to load Formula race cars in. A GM bus, everything is in the rear with a transverse mounted reverse rotation motor. They are a good machine but were never intended to pull heavy trailers and there is no good place to mount the tow system. Many people have done it but eventually the large aluminum rear bulkhead breaks down. My buddies Wanderlodge (PT40) has a rear mounted engine but it is conventionally mounted with normal rotation like an MCI. That 450 HP Detroit is very comfortable at 75 mph and rarely has to shift down on hills. The drivetrain is designed to move 80,000 lbs so the less than 40,000 of the conversion is like running without a load.
Dave Wright, you are a wealth of information on this subject. I enjoyed reading your postings. Well done!
Many of these buses are still in service. Burbank High School in California uses them all the time!
Wow….nice preserved…..for storage ?
Dave Wright, excellent and I and other Barn Finders thank you for very good work.
Don’t make a fuss, just get on the Bus!
FZ
Always desirable. I have been driving buses of all types since 1989.
School buses, cutaways, transit and coaches.
Driven nearly every type of school bus since the B700 chassis.
Only Gillig and Crown are on my wish list.
This bus would be great for non BOE work and as a historical bus.
My late father designed this rounded, upgraded exterior over an existing 1930s chassis as a freelance project for the Brockways in 1947. Crown Body & Coach made superior products right here in Los Angeles, not just school buses but fire engines as well. Many survive today. Modern interpretations simply cannot compare!
The Crown Supercoach is a Beast! The company was owned by the Brockway family of heavy duty truck fame, and they used standard heavy truck parts throughout: Axles, Brakes, engines, frames, transmissions.
I have owned many buses, and the Crown is king of tough; I still have my 1969 90 passenger RV conversion, 14 liter Cummins NHHTC-350 with Jake, 10 speed Roadranger, Tandem locking axles, Air ride… The body is constructed of double framed Corten steel, and weighs in at 38,000 pounds gross; it gets 8.5-14.5 MPG. It does not rocket up all hills, but I am passing many vehicles on the long steep grades: Not overpowered, nor underpowered. The engine has been slightly tuned and will make 107 MPH on the level, while towing a VW Jetta.
With the midships design versus a pusher, there is a little more engine sound up front, and the heat soaks up when you shut down, which is fine in the cool weather, but not great in the hot.. (Maybe a little insulation there) I am over six feet tall, and the headroom is quite adequate.
After the retirement and death of their principal, Crown sold out, (Detroit, Penske?) and eventually Thomas bought them, and RUINED the product and company by cheaping out on stupid things like the grade of plywood used for the floors. Last I knew Sandi Brockway, the Grandaughter of Crown’s owner was still maintaining a website. http://crowncoach.info/