Does it seem like what you get when you buy a project car is becoming less and less with each passing day? Will we be down to acquiring a sheet-metal section with a VIN number and one dented front fender one of these days? That’s what it feels like when you look at the listing here on eBay for this 1970 Mustang SportsRoof Mach 1 428 Cobra Jet Ram Air. Tipster TJ, always on the job, found this one for us. It sits in Jonesboro, LA, and eight bids have nudged it past the $2000 mark with the auction ending on Tuesday.
You get everything in the pictures, according to the listing. Trouble is, there’s not much there. If you want it, however, you have the right to the front clip, or even the whole hulk, of a big-block Cougar. And there’s the key: The big-block sale car has the crucial digit in the engine slot of the VIN: R. That means that once upon a time, it was one of the most coveted cars of the muscle era, a Mach 1 Mustang with a 4V 428 Cobra Jet Ram Air engine. Now, it’s just the occupant cage and rear sheet metal, more or less, and even what’s there is not whole. The ad says that the front portion of the car is in rough shape, with rust around the windshield and cowl.
The seller encourages you with this proclamation: “It can be fixed if you are into that sort of thing. Its [sic] all in what you want to do” What in the world else would you do? There’s nothing here but a body shell! But if you do fix it, what are you going to need? Nearly everything, way beyond the scope of almost any restoration you’ve ever contemplated before. Doors, door panels, window hardware, the windows themselves, armrests, door locks and mechanisms—that’s just a quick brainstorm of one component, and it’s not an exhaustive list. How much would it cost to restore this car? Tens of thousands of dollars. How much more if you decide to keep it factory-style and find an R-code engine, and the authentic Ram Air set-up? This is where the made-up word, “Unobtainium” comes in. You can find anything you need, but if there are only a few of each, the prices are going to be nutty, and this, being a Mach 1, is more rare than most.
Of course, you could pursue the idea to set this Mach 1 up with a more modern crate engine and so forth. However, you’d be far ahead to find a way better car—say, one with an interior—and restomod that rather than take on this project only to create an in authentic version of what it is–that is to say, what it could be with diligent effort and deep pockets. Why would you spend all that money not to have an authentic Cobra Jet Ram Air? (And if your answer is, “Dude, you buy this shell for the VIN number and re-body it,” I have two responses for you: first, this one has no title, and so it’s going to be hard enough to deal with the DMV in many jurisdictions; second, that only sounds like a good idea in states where you won’t end up in jail for it.) Gee, the more you think of it, the harder this gets.
Nice set of tail lights.
This is a vin tag sale…nothing more nothing less
Looks like a car body to me!
YOU may not like it however it is the sellers property to SELL!
The seller has NOT misrepresented the car for sale. The seller has NOT perpetuated any fraud. The seller has NOT done anything illegal.
What YOU think Might Happen In The Future is another discussion at such time as this car comes up for sale again that has nothing to do with this seller or his offer for sale of this car.
Maybe one thing would be to prohibit the sale of any “unrebuildable” vehicle with a VIN plate So when you sold something like this, you could still sell it, but the VIN would be nullified
For borderline shells, the body would be stamped with a certain unremovable code throughout. You would have to prove that you rebuilt the actual vehicle to reactivate the VIN.
Uh… actually the seller has done something illegal: he removed the VIN tag from the body. I don’t know of a state in which that’s legal. Please tell me about it if you do.
Should be illegal.
why???
Not that I care it’s some rich blows their money on a fake, but a couple buyers down-the-line it will be a problem. I don’t like it.
It is possible I’ve said this before. Much like the burned up shelby I think I remember seeing some time ago, it doesn’t matter what it WAS, what it IS is junk. Agree that this is all about the vin number and any vehicle created using said vin is nothing short of blatant fraud. But, as always is the case, a fool and his/her money…
Even if the “restorer” is honest, the problem is that as the car gets passed down to 1, 2 maybe 3 more people, the true story will be forgotten.
As I said above, I think the best solution would be to create a legal definition of “unrebuildable” and then just nullify the VIN associated with such a car. There is no reason that somebody should be able to take the VIN off of this and put it on another car or a Dynacorn.
I fear the ship has probably already sailed. I am sure there are a lot of cars running around out there with phony VINs. That is why if I were a ever buy a 1960s muscle car. I would definitely insist on one If that is all original. I just don’t trust restorations. Not only because of this but because many of the restoration parts are made in China.
Being in a fire is the only thing missing on this heap.
Ha Ha the seller says you can fix it if you are into that kind of thing So how many are into that kind of thing will determine the worth? Not me
Y’all are not seeing the beauty and potential of this crusher escapee. A bare shell and a vin? Run the vin and see if it is stolen (or don’t take it to Florida), if it’s clean get an off road Cert. This would be a great base for a vintage road race or Mustang club race car.
VIN # sale and haven’t we seen this one before?
And it was Green!
The original color was Calypso Coral, the front clip was replaced at some point years ago.
Have shell…..won’t travel !
Signed, Paladin
Nice! Another OTR fan!!!
No thanks.
Swap vin tags and go to jail, it’s that simple
What a joke.
Well, if he was hoping someone would buy it for big bucks to do a VIN swap, he shot himself in the foot my posting the full VIN. I’m sure that the R-code registry has been informed of this VIN and the current condition of the car so, unless they do a complete transformation like the Cuda from Graveyard cars where it is documented on camera, it will always be known and identified as a VIN swap rebody. That will kill the value for anyone considering buying it to do the VIN swap.
Right now, the value is about top of the market for a fastback roof for a fastback conversion.
With the topic of VIN swapping in mind, I watched as the host/shop owner who appears in one of the many, nameless, TV shows cut the surrounding metal from the VIN plate, leaving the plate intact. He then welded it seamlessly ( or so it appears through the magic of video) to the newly generated vehicle. The show’s host explained this process is completely legal in the state in which he resides. Does anyone have knowledge or care to voice an opinion of such?
It’s illegal to change just the Vin, but its not illegal to change the cowl, with the Vin.
Someone has a boned out but solid 6 cylinder just waiting for a cowl swap.
Someone has a bunch of Mustangs and will sacrifice a lesser one for an R code , because they love Mustangs. ( no matter what we drive we respect an R code).
Or someone has a mig welder lots of time and a pile of Chinese parts.
Some people are just super talented and stuff like this ( bringing back to show shape) is what they do.
Naturally an original 1970 ford body is a better option ( to me ) than a pile of parts.
I guess whichever route is better than crunching it.
Strange to say but someone will be psyched to get thier new R code home???!!! Someone has everything but this
There is an old saying about deals like this one” More money than brains. If I were to consider buying a car like this I would take a copy of the vin # down to local DMV or PD and have it checked that it is not stolen. You could wind up sinking a fortune in something like this only to have a local PD show up with a wrecker to impound it as a stolen vehicle. This actually happened to some unfortunate people in Orlando, Fl.
As a court recognized transportation expert and an owner of a restoration shop for several decades, I have to remind everyone that what the current owner is doing is 100% legal as long as the VIN comes up clean. Plus, as he’s gone to the effort to get a Marti report, I suspect he has already run the VIN thru the NCIC system.
Problems arise when subsequent owners DO commit fraud by not disclosing the car’s prior condition, or suggesting the finished vehicle is original.
I’m going to make a comparison here: What is the difference between this vehicle and another ’70 Mach-1 CJRA car that is taken down to every last possible part and restored back to original, except the engine and trans were missing, and the rear axle was damaged beyond repair?
Since in both instances, a replacement drive train needs to be sourced, and as both body shells require complete restoration, what is the actual physical difference? NOTHING.
Unless the owner creates a false-narrative of the car’s history to disguise the fact one car was used for parts, then the general consensus of law enforcement is the owner has committed fraud.
Jacking up the cut-out cowl and inner fender containing the matching VIN info, and replacing everything else is not illegal providing the work is disclosed to future buyers. There is another problem though, the warranty plate on the replacement driver’s door is not going to match. However if the current owner has that door warranty plate, it’s not illegal to attach the plate to a replacement door, as it’s not an official VIN plate. If it was considered a VIN plate, it couldn’t be [by federal law] attached to a part that can be removed [the door assembly].
Again, this all boils down to the need for “full disclosure” of information on the vehicle’s history.
As someone above suggested requiring bare bodies or frames to be stamped with a special number to prevent rebuilding, this is simply not workable. It’s something that is not enforceable.
There is a growing problem with late model expensive luxury cars involved in floods [and the USA has had a lot of floods lately], where the totaled vehicle is sold and exported to 3rd world countries where labor costs are extremely low. These cars are completely rebuilt, and then presented as undamaged vehicles, because the country the car is then titled in, has no definition of a “salvage title”. These cars are then sold at great profit in other countries in Europe, Japan, the UK, etc.
I mention this because an enterprising person living in X country could buy this Mustang body, and have it completely restored in his country by workers who DO have the ability to perform show quality work. Just as we can buy the parts needed off the internet, they can as well. If this Mustang’s VIN does not show up as salvage, when the car is re-imported with a foreign title, there will be no problem in getting a new US state title without restrictions.
Note that everything I just described is NOT illegal as long as the owner doesn’t make any false claims about the vehicle’s history.
You know, lawyers charge a thousand an hour for twisting obviously unethical behavior into a steaming pile of “legal” crap. It doesn’t make it right, but it might make it “legal in some countries”.
Why would you waste a second of your one and only life doing something you’re ashamed of for money? Well… I guess if you have no character, why not?
Bla bla bla
It’s a piece of merchandise for sale. What happens to it after the fact is no one’s concern. It should be against the law?
What if I want it for a planter?
You people have to much time on your hands.
likewise the guy sellin glovebox (where 1st gen broncos havea VIN) doors in Armirillo. The frame # is hard ta C. Ford used the ’empty box’ manaf. method so no real ‘numbers matchin’ w/motor. And the big fire (late ’70s?) destroying records that Marti took advantage of to make his business…
Now I think I have seen everything…..What a joke
Good thing you can 3D print everything you need. I did it to build a Shelby and cashed out BIG!!
Bill Mc. is right on. All the “legal” experts should do some research on old Ferrari , Bugatti, Alfa Romeo, Jaguar race cars “restorations” / ” rebuilds” with correct serial numbers, ID numbers etc. , that started out with a block and frame, with numbers matching, and next thing you know, $5mil. + At Christie’s!
V12MECH,
Your comment reminds me of a Ferrari restoration shop in England. The shop was caught building up Ferrari cars by telling wealthy car owners their original Ferrari “part” [perhaps even an entire engine, gearbox, axle, etc.] was beyond repair and they would replace it with a newly manufactured example that was an exact copy, but of course without the chassis or engine number stamped on it.
The company then began “restoring” a couple of early Ferrari racing cars that had recently been “discovered”, and they used those actual Ferrari parts to build the cars. The whole enterprise was discovered in the 1980s, and the shop closed, the men charged with fraud.
I was informed the way they were found out was the VIN was added to the end of the chassis numbers as recorded by Ferrari. For example, if Ferrari made 10 cars of one specific model, and the last one had a VIN ending in 10, they made theirs # 11, and explained it away by claiming Ferrari’s records were poorly kept! .
Reminds me of the big block Chevelle cowl/VIN featured here a few years back. This isn’t as bad, it’s at least identifiable but it’s close.
Brian K,
There is nothing in the ad that says that the Cougar parts car was originally a big block car. Every 1969 and 1970 Cougar built has the big block reinforced shock towers, even the very base cars with an H code 351 2V engine.
His yard looks like he made an offer on all the junk Mustangs and Cougars in an old timers junkyard , where they were picked clean of anything useful decades ago ..
I’ll pass
Sold $2,425.