If there’s one thing we all know, it’s that years of pursuing and restoring the same type of car can lead to having a large parts stash and potentially even spare parts cars. If I had the space, I would own at least two additional parts vehicles by this point, so it’s probably good I’m limited by real estate. Barn Finds reader Olaf E. spotted this posting here on craigslist for the liquidation of years of Porsche car and part collecting, where the seller wants $16K for the whole shebang.
First up is a 1984 928S with the automatic transmission that the seller says is the best one of the bunch (and shown above in the top photo). Lots of pricey maintenance has already been tackled, including a new timing belt, fuel pump and suspension bushings. Some personal touches have been added, like the unusual shifter boot around the automatic transmission handle and a custom battery isolation switch, seen alongside the driver’s seat.
Also included in the sale is a 1986 naturally-aspirated 944, which is said to have run at one time but is now inoperable due to needing new fuel injectors. These 944s seem to be enjoying a slight uptick in prices at the moment, so this is the one that gets my attention. Obviously, a turbocharged model may be more desirable to some, but if it just needs injectors and isn’t rusty, this could be a fun project to restore.
There’s also another 928 included in the sale, which the seller says went from being a dedicated parts car to a potential race car, and now it’s up to the next owner how to use it (I’m putting my money on parts car). This car is a manual transmission model, which I’d personally prefer in a V8 cruiser like the 928, but I have no idea how difficult it is to convert an automatic car. There’s no title with this gold 928, so it’s unlikely to be registered if you live in a state that requires more than a bill of sale.
And finally, here’s some visual representation for all of the parts the seller has accumulated over the years. It’s too bad it has been unceremoniously tossed into the dirt of a storage unit; large part sales like these present way better when everything is stacked neatly on a shelf. I don’t know what the parts availability for 928s is like, but I don’t see anything too valuable in this stash, and who knows how much of it is even still functional. Does $16K seem a deal or a dud for this collection?
I sell Porsche parts all day every day and if there are two cars that are very hard to part, it’s the 928 and the 944, only thing worse is a 924. He’s is going to need to knock off a 0 off the price to get anyone interested.
The ’84 928 as a runner/driver is maybe a $5K car depending on mileage (if maintained they routinely go for 350K miles without anything major failing). The interior looks good from the photo, so maybe even more. The 944 is an ’86, so buff it out and if the interior is decent those currently fetch $4K+ depending on mileage and transmission.
The rest of the parts look like stuff I throw away when upgrading my own or customer’s cars. Mechanical fans and such just get pitched. If you have trouble parting a 928/944, your buyer has just bought undesirable cars, or your pricing is wrong.
Adam just curious why are they hard to part out, no demand?
The problem with cars like this is that the non-running ones are quickly out-numbering the running ones, so the call for parts is less and less. Not to mention that most of these cars are decades old so if you buy one for a couple of thousand it’s pretty ragged out, so any part that anyone would want costmetically your car is probably messed up in the same place. For example, you aren’t going to pick up a 83 928 for $1000 and then be able to sell the seats/dash/door pieces because they will probably be trashed, maybe even worse than the guy who is calling you looking for those parts. So you are left with hard parts like glass, engine stuff, and suspension, but every car being parted will give up these parts, so there will be a glut of them on the market already. An old parts guy taught me an important lesson, good parts come from good cars, so in order to part out a 928 or 944 and get any real money for all the parts you would have to buy one for $10,000, but then how many parts do you have to sell to make $10,000. Look at the parts this guy has, fans, blown out interior parts, and hard greasy parts, even the worst 928 has the very same parts. Now if you had a perfect 928 interior complete, or an NOS water pump, those would sell, but you aren’t getting either of those off of a $1000 junker.
As I noted earlier, that’s simply a matter of the buyer picking a “good” car. For example, a wrecked auction 928 87+ goes for say $2-4K. I’ll make $10K parting it out, or even a 83-86 Euro has a hard parts value of $5K+. Interior and frippery is irrelevant.
One has to actually *know* what to buy, and what the market wants.
@16V turning $4000 + the labor and shipping into $10,000 is not a business make, it’s a weekend hobby that can support your habit, but a true business it isn’t. In order to make money parting cars you need to sell 1-2 items that pay for the car, and the rest is the gravy.
Adam, That’s really interesting, because guys I know in the wrecking yard business would be really happy buying a $4K car and getting $10K parting it. They’d be ecstatic if they made $10K on a cheap car. ($4K is a pretty cheap auction car).
If you’re breaking late-model commodity cars, sure you spent $1.5K for a say, a 2006 model Corolla that’s hit too hard for even the rebuilders to touch. Then sure you get $1.5K for the engine and the rest is “gravy”. That “gravy” is the transmission $1500, the headlights $300 if you sell them retail, and the rest maybe another $1000 if you warehouse it long enough to find a buyer of the seats and doors. Strip it well before it hits the shredder: pull most of the python, separate contaminated from clean aluminum, rotors, if the bumper covers are in demand, sell them to a refinisher, wheels to a dealer, I’ve heard of a guy who even tosses the keys in a bucket for the brass. You’ll get about $130 per ton for a carcass….
@16V the difference is in the Porsche business it’s quality, not quantity, there isn’t enough available stock to make slim margins and turning $4000 into $10,000 after you will spend hundreds of hours breaking and shipping is a slim margin
Adam, Honestly, have you ever taken cars apart as a business?
With a lift and air tools, it’s less than 15 hours (at around $15 an hour including taxes, insurance and such) to completely disassemble a Porsche to it’s component sections and store it on a shelf. Any other labor that it takes to say, remove a gauge from a cluster, upper A-arm from the suspension, intake from the engine, switch from a console, whatever, is priced into the margin of what small parts sell for.
You need to google Adam Wright at unobtainum……..he I one of the biggest Porsche breakers in the world.
‘Dave’ I have no idea who ‘Adam’; is. Nor do I care to look. I actually know several Porsche breakers, and they work on the numbers I know, quite successfully.
Once again, do you have a factual point to argue, or are you just going to spout nonsense?
I agree with Adam.
My guess is that 944s and especially 928s are such complex cars that very few people will take them on.
These are only $4k or $5k cars, if you find the one buyer who will pay that, if you’re lucky enough that he/she exists……
Horse Raddish, Do you own any car at all made past, say, year 2000? If you do, it’s guaranteed boatloads more complex than any of the aforecaptioned Porkers.
That this mythology continues 40 years after the first 928 hit the street is hilarious, and kinda sad. The 928, up to and including the final GTS of 1995, has nothing close to the level of complication of a 2000 Acura RL, The 928/944/951 are simple cars that were about 10 years ahead of the market on some tiny bits of bits of tech. The rest was a straightforward GT car. The most ‘complicated’ thing on any one of them has long since been surpassed by a garden-variety Honda Civic.
People are rediscovering these cars precisely *because* they are simple, yet have just enough modern tech to be buildable and developable.
I hate to fill you in on a little detail, that the car industry has not shared.
Cars after 1995 are built to break and be un-fixable (economically nonviable even with the tinyest repair) so that you have to go out and buy a newer, even less fixable car….
I wouldn’t touch a car newer than 1995 unless somebody hands me the key and it drives. When it stops , where it stops , that’s when and where I will walk away from it.
Look at the re-sale prices of these cars: they plummet like a concrete block in free fall.
Depends how you define ‘expensive’. The fact that today’s even *average* cars have better NVH, get better MPG, spew less pollutants and are far more crash worthy does come at some cost. A stinkin’ Hyundai is objectively “nicer” inside than even an 80s Mercedes.
If you can’t fix it yourself, sure, some things will be insanely expensive, like say a new transmission. Fortunately, there is a robust secondary market for used parts, and it’s all a few keystrokes away, if you have a bit of mechanical aptitude. If not, just stick to new cars with long warranties.
I agree with 16V, my brothers non-turbo 944 was a built like a tank. He did most of the work on it himself, probably w/o a manual and before good internet. He also kept two Saab 900 going at the same time – much the same stout engineering with a few more idiosyncratic devices on board
I bought a 928 S4 from California for close to $10,000 about 2 years ago and imported it back to Germany. Nice car, needed suspension work before it was fit for the autobahn. I sold it for a few reasons, I couldn’t get it absolutely leak free – even after replacing seals on the automatic transmission I still had leaks, not bad but enough to stain parkplaces. The auto shift was a abrupt on kickdown which took some fun out of driving – seemed like it should have been smoother. Finally the interference engine – even though the belt had been changed by the previous owner – I would have needed to change it and the water-pump myself to regain confidence. Beautiful shape, loved the car but bills kept rolling in and I was already too far upside down on the project. Some of the work already done on this 928 but still lots to do.
So. you spent far less than a new Honda Civic for a 170 MPH luxury GT car that was made between 1987 and 1991. Then, you somehow expected not to spend, maybe another $5K sorting it? Really? You bought the cheapest S4 you could find and expected it to be concours?
As to the seals in the a/t, it’s not the only thing that can leak – just like every other car. Perhaps you should have found a competent shop, who knows 928s. And if you didn’t like the shift characteristics, the slushie is just a recased M-B trans, used in the W126 platform of which there are several shift kits for.
Oh yeah, the timing belt McGuffin. A factory t-belt and rebuilt waterpump is less than $500 in parts and (I charge) $600 in labor. It’s about the same money as doing a t-belt/waterpump on a ‘Yota.
So, you bought a car that was beyond your ability to even afford basic maint on. That’s not the fault of the car.
I get that some people like the late Porsche 928, but I also get that some people don’t care for the degree of complexity and expense for service or parts…..Bosch injectors cross-referenced from a cheap car notwithstanding.
We could debate whether it is good or bad to want to own an interference engine with belt-driven cams, but the bottom line is that cars have gotten more and more complex lately, and some folks draw the line in the complexity sand in a different place than other folks, as is their right. Do I need to mention that it is their right to decide where to draw that line for themselves?
It’s good that commenter 16V owns and works on Porsche 928s, but that does not make him the arbiter of other peoples’ choices in cars. A 928 is less complex than recent cars, but it’s also a lot more complex than a 1960s V12 Ferrari.
Guys will make their choices based on complexity, or looks, or sound, or other things, and it’s unseemly at best to belittle their choices just because it is not your particular choice……or the particular car make/model that you happen to own, or sell, or work on for a living.
Please relax and allow other people make their own choices and mention what they are on this terrific site.
What exactly are we ‘debating’? Pretty much *every* car made today has an interference engine, is that your ‘tipping point? Please, name the current engine that meets US emissions standards without being interference. There’s a handful, but they are rare.
I’m hardly the arbiter, merely the observer of fact. And if you think any 928 is “more complex” than a 1960’s Fezza 12C with a half dozen carbs, you’ve obviously never worked on either.
Oh, and the 928 engine wasn’t interference (in the US anyway) until 1985.
I do agree with you that guys (and gals) can make their choices as they will. Dog knows, cars are at least about as much about emotion as logic for enthusiasts. Which is cool. I just believe that they should make said choices with factual information, and not the propaganda that those who have no actual experience espouse. I happily accept the inherent limitations of my 928s, and the rest of my stable. Doesn’t mean I pretend thy aren’t there and don’t rectify them.
Interference or not wasn’t the point. I imagine that most or even every car made today might have an interference engine. I don’t know because I haven’t checked. I thought we, and you, were talking about engines made years ago.
Here’s the point again: nobody has to like the 928, or any other car, or keep spending more money on it after already spending money to fix it when the fixes haven’t worked completely (Paul’s 928 transmission leak) or when the driving dynamics aren’t what he wants anyway (abrupt kickdown).
It’s for him to decide, and nobody needs to be told that they should have spent more money than they already have on fixing its problems, but that’s what you were saying to Paul. He never said that he expected his 928 to be “concours”. All he wanted was the transmission to stop leaking, to run smooth, and not to have more and more bills.
And from your remarks about me and what I did or didn’t ever work on, you don’t know me at all, so I’m surprised that you have the attitude that you do.
As I did note in the post, everyone is entitled to make whatever calls they like about a car, the point is having realistic expectations based on factual knowledge. Not ‘feelz’ or reacting to points I distinctly did not make.
The list of “problems” that make a 928/944 so “complicated” doesn’t exist in real life. What does exist are the same problems that plague every other car that’s used, let alone 20+ years old. A 928 is no more complicated than a concurrent W126 S-class.
It’s not berating, it’s merely telling the truth. Something sorely lacking these days. I’ve many times done my best to dissuade people from buying cars they can’t afford to maintain, or resto projects that they don’t understand the realities of. I would imagine at this point he wished he would have consulted at least a hobbyist for a realistic appraisal of what to expect.
Many cars, especially BMWs, Porsche, MBZs, and Jags (poor jags) have suffered from temporarily un-broke people buying their ‘dream-car’, when what they really needed to do was get a better used Toyota Corolla. As I noted before, you are free to do as you wish. But don’t blame the car when it’s the owner who made a bad decision.
Well I own a 928 from 1984 and it is a manual car. Compared to anything built after 2006 these are extremely simple cars that offer a great deal of joy as long at you give them the care they need which is really not that much.
As for converting a automatic to a manual there are sheet metal differences, prop shaft difference not to mention the peddle assembly and it can be done but it is a major pain to do so. Time consuming and everything must fit just so.
The 928 is one of the finest built cars that I have ever seen with one exception. The electrical switches are about the worst I have ever seen and they cause most of the problems with the seat, windows, sunroofs.
The rest of the car is straight forward good engineering. For the time the best engineering and every bit the equal of Mercedes of the era for they were designed to be owned by the leaders of industry, politics, and communications. That is mainly who purchased them for generally they were about 4 to 5 times as expensive as the standard american sedan if not more.
What drives most people away is that they do not realize that the 928 can be a 4 seater high performance car. Easily the better of the corvette and 911 in any year they were made and still out perform most cars over 30 years later. This is a car of details especially in construction. The glove box is air-conditioned, the doors both have hidden map pockets that are very useful as well as parcel shelfs under the dash for both passengers.
All The steel sheet metal is galvanized inside and out. That is why so few of them are rusted away. Most of the front including the fenders and hood are aluminum as well as the doors and I believe the rear hatch. This year of clutch is a double clutch which if you use it properly will out perform a single clutch and last well over 100K miles. Porsche on the 928 tended to use 4 fasteners where most companies would use one. That includes the spot welds on the body. Outside of a Mercedes 560SEL of the era if you have to be in an accident and want to walk away this is one of the cars you want to be driving.
As for no demand for parts that is becoming less and less true. There is a growing number of people who have ridden in them, driven them over the years and desire them. They are no longer so different that they are shunned by either the Porsche crowd or many others. There are a few that put large block aluminum Chevy engines into them thinking that they can get more power at a lower cost but put a pair of proper turbos into one of these and 500 hp is achievable with only a moderate increase in radiator capacity.
The 928 was a cost is no object design that was built to last, It was engineered to be a near tank in terms of passenger protection and was designed to out perform the 911 as well as being easier to drive. Porsche succeeded in all aspects. The problem is most of us are used to disposable products and would not see superb workmanship from a factory if it spit in their faces.
If you pay attention the prices have been going up steadily and I expect will continue to do so for every model except for the 77-78 years which had a very large number of vacuum operated features that have started to fail a long time ago. They also have the lowest performance and the combination bodes poorly for those two years. Even those can be put right it just takes longer and costs more. In good shape I have seen them go from 3 and 4K cars to 12 to 18K cars in the last ten years. The later models from 1990 and newer go for more than 50 to near 100K. That must mean something.
Bruce, Congrats! I too have an ’84(sorta). Mine has GTS brakes, suspension, trans, torque tube, ABS, PSD, a hybrid factory exhaust, Euro heads and cams, Megasquirt, and forced induction. It’s covered over 300K miles, and despite putting down 450HP at the wheels, this winter I might just yank the motor and rebuild (aka stock rings, bearing slap, and re-gasket) it. Or it may wait until next winter, like last winter…
As to the switches, Spal was the sub. If you are careful, you can disassemble and polish off the carbon when they get sketchy. I haven’t bought a switch in 16 years. It’ll take about 15 minutes per, after you do it a few times.
What kind of forced induction do you have supercharger or turbo. I wish that both Spal and Porsche would understand how it looks when Honda switches far out last the ones the put in cars costing as much as 10 times more. I have heard the same complaints from owners of much newer cars than mine even into the 2000 years.
For me the stock power is enough. I have ridden and driven some of the fastest cars every made including a ride in a McLaren MK-8A that the seat belts left bruises on my body after just a few laps.
I go the 928 because for me it was the perfect combination of being useful, (the hatchback and rear seats) for my family and two young daughters and performance. Also it is rare enough that almost nobody knows what it is and those that do are generally impressed.
Very few cars that are 30+ years old perform with new cars. The 928 levels of performance are so high that they keep up or exceed that of most of the newer machines.
Finally if you park a new corvette next to a very old one the new car is often ignored and the crowd is around the old one. Like knowing how to fly or to sail a ship having the skills, means and desire to keep an older exotic in top shape tells many about you and your values.
Both my 928 and my 89 esprit have made me many friends from those that liked that I was caring for them properly. I have gotten far more work from people I have met while driving them than I paid for them.
Perfect cars no but for me at least worth the effort.
Bruce, My current setup is rear-mount turbo, but I’ve had a centrifugal back in the day. I designed a twin-screw, but never got around to completing it. Long-term I’m working on an electric (like the Valeo system, not a hair-dryer ‘e-ram’). My more current project though is integrating a Honda Insight IMA as a starternator in the bell housing..Then there’s the new intake I gotta finish the CFD on, and I what I *really* would love to do is get with Koenigsegg and integrate his Freevalve onto the engine platform….
The switches are a pain, I’ve long since scraped off the plating. The ultimate solution would be to run a relay, and have those switches flow a lot less current. Maybe in my spare time. As you noted though. these things are build to be fixed, I just don’t think switches should be on the menu.
Interestingly, I was narrowed down to a Turbo Esprit or the 928, 20 years ago when I started down this road. The only reason I didn’t go Esprit was because of my daily driver requirement. Back then the web was marginal, and Lotus parts were tough – even though we had a dealer in town. And no matter how much I like them, I have yet to see one make it to 200K, let alone 300K with an original drivetrain.
All those parts and he couldn’t find a set of injectors and get it running? Scares me!
It should and it shouldn’t. *If* you are knowledgeable enough to know it’s a Bosch injector, and check the Bosch cross-ref charts, and see you can grab an equivalent set off a readily available ‘Stang in a junkyard for $5 each, then it’s scary.
The reality is *still* that most guys who hobby-mess with cars aren’t into that kind of minutiae, and as such look at the $125/per from Oreilly or whatever, and just give up.
There are a number of parts sources that can be extremely helpful and the internet makes them easy to find. There are interior people that can make the interior better than new and that is a nice trick.
One of the things I found out after looking thru some Porsche literature is how many 928 owners also were airplane owners. Over 40% and that is an extremely high number. What many also do not understand is that these cars were compared and priced against Ferrari 308’s, Lotus Esprits, Jag XJS and High line BMW and Mercedes. The people that liked them least were the 911 owners that could not out run them.
I agree with 16V you are either into one and in all the way or stay away. They are complex and time consuming to put right. Not that bad to keep right but you must keep them up.
Another one of the critical things that is missed is that that this was the first all Alloy engine with NO cast iron liners. NEVER and I Mean NEVER overheat one. That can easily trash an engine totally.
If you are a pilot you follow the rules or you quickly end up dead from your own foolishness. With a 928 it will not kill you if you are foolish only your pocket book.
Bruce, I hate to point this out, but the 928 was the first Reynolds 390 block done correctly. It wasn’t the ‘actual’ first by almost a decade. (7-ish years anyway.)
The Chebby Vega was out in 1970 with a pathetically improperly executed block made of the same material – it was crap, as all things GM, and failed routinely in 30K mile or less. Generally less…
what a pile of junk… I’d say all together is worth maybe 5000