Reading this listing for a 1968 Porsche 911 did not do my blood pressure any good. According to the seller, he drove – yes, drove – his long-hood 911 to a restoration shop for a full concourse job. Lock, stock, and barrel, he was ready to have his air-cooled specimen returned to new condition. There was just one problem: he moved out of state and continued to keep in touch with the shop, which failed to disclose that they were on the verge of going out of business and his car was in pieces. What you’re seeing is all that remains of his beloved 911, as the shop also didn’t mention the car was in storage and they stopped paying the fees – so it went up for auction, piece by piece. Find it here on eBay with bidding at $5,000 and the reserve unmet.
Just recently, I acquired a vehicle that’s a total project, and the story the seller told me rings very similar to this one: he left a vehicle at a shop to be worked on, and then got busy. He forgot about it. The shop then caught heat from the town for having too many parts vehicles sitting around and ordered they scrap a number of them – including this individual’s project that had been there for a few months awaiting servicing. The shop forgot it belonged to a customer and the truck got scrapped – then, the owner called a few days later to see how things are going. Needless to say, the shop gifted him one of the vehicles they did hold onto, and that’s the truck I now own. The seller of this 911 didn’t get as lucky, as the shop was basically dissolved and he found his 911 in the form you see it now, albeit missing several essential parts.
I can’t even imagine the moment you begin piecing this all together. The shop has been lying to you for months; the car isn’t anywhere close to finished; it’s in pieces and now located in a storage lock-up you’ve never been to before; the storage company auctioned off your car because the restoration facility stopped paying the rent; it’s just insane! And the seller doesn’t explain whether he’s been making payments all this time to the shop that was supposedly working on his car! I’d absolutely burst a blood vessel upon realizing just how badly I had been screwed over; kudos to this seller for keeping it together enough to cut his losses and move on.
The good news is there are some important bits still with the 911, like the numbers matching engine and transmission. Obviously, the body shell is present, along with the fenders, fuel tank, floor pans, dash, and assorted gauges. What’s missing, however, is fairly important too, including the suspension, tires, wheels, doors, glass, steering wheel, seats, and interior panels. As someone who relies on shops for almost all of my projects, it’s hard enough realizing how deep your car is in the project queue; it’s immeasurably worse to find a situation like this where they simply didn’t care and left your vintage sports car in a heap of scattered parts. If I were the seller, I’d list all of their names in the listing so they never touch another enthusiast’s project ever again.
Weeelllll, I don’t know about a horror story, I’d have to think a shoddy restoration or “misplaced” would be scarier. Anytime you put stock into someone elses hands, you have to accept, things can go wrong. Just ask anyone that has had home remodeling, things change daily, some abandoning work altogether and a reputable contractor has to charge extra to undo what they did.
The other thing we as Americans have come to expect, we think we are the only ones in the world, computers have done that. In a case like this, the shop could have literally overwhelmed with work, and no help. A local body shop on my bike route, has LOT full of damaged vehicles waiting to be fixed. After a snowfall, it grows even more, some have been there for MONTHS. The author, who is clearly upset as well, is taking the “customers” view, and rightly so, it’s just, customer, shmusotmer, not many people today go for “dirty” jobs, and a body shop is about the MOST filthy job, who is doing that today? Especially, with the “patina” fad, there are clearly no painters left. Unless you do this yourself, there’s a stern lesson to be learned here, you are at the mercy of the shop, and if they are going under, I bet they have bigger fish to fry, like creditors, than someones car they may or may not have heard from in months.
The demographics of body shops have changed since the 1970’s. I have a friend that has worked at the same dealership body shop for 31 years. He also did work at his shop at home.
He was a frame machine guy and also well rounded in body work as well as a painter. In his day he could clear out a bar. He was a mans man.
He made a good living His final years were reserved only to take lightly damaged vehicles apart. That’s all he did. College students making $11. an hour painted parts and put them back together. Gone was the frame rack and many of the benefits the working men came to expect.
Sadly he became sort of a joke in the shop. He was the old guy. For all his years he showed up every day. It came down to no one had the heart to tell him to not come back. They didn’t have to. He was diagnosed with a brain cancer. Body work was rough. The paint thinners and rubbing compound have a way to seep in your skin. Paint and plastic dust gets in your lungs.
As for the Porsche. I blame the owner. One can tell a lot from the condition of the shop. You never pay anything before the car is done. Get a contract and NEVER move away and conduct business on the phone. It’s unforunate
“never pay anything before it’s done” isn’t reality. A frame off resto is a months if not years long process. They’re going to want a deposit at the least. Hell, I won’t install your water heater without half down.
Owned a body shop for over 20 years whose primary focus was collision repair but we’d do a restoration on a case by case basis if I knew the customer or if they were referred by a prior customer. I’d put them on a list and when work got slow(elective collision repair/paintwork can be somewhat seasonal) and the restoration repair would ride us over it. I’d call and if they still needed work it was their turn or I’d move to the next one. A real restoration can be a very involved process depending on what the owner wants and the customers cars like some on BF are bottomless pits once opened up. I never did any work that wasn’t authorized in writing and as the finish date was sort of open-ended I settled up with my customers at the end of every week. That way they knew the status of their car, what had been done and they could stop whenever they wished(some built theirs in stages), no one was holding a bag and we’re all still friends today.
AMCFAN: I feel for the old guy. We all know one of them who worked hard, probably never intended to work in their senior years but were forced to because of money issues. I had a very good friend in the body shop business, a small shop that he ran on a shoestring for 4 decades. He finally got too frail to do the work but was able to drive a school bus for a decade or so. He is one of the few body men who did not have health issues from paint. Must have been good genetics because he rarely used a mask when painting with lacquer but at least did use a cheap mask when painting with the nasty stuff. He lived a long life and fixed many wrecks along the way. I still have the magazines where his show cars were shown in the late 50’s
We bought our shop in the early ’80s and it had 3 cars in it that had been sitting for over a year. IRS gave us 2 weeks to pay the unpaid back taxes so we floated a loan using our new ’84 Vanagen camper as collateral and went to work. Biggest job was an XKE that had been painted but was all apart except the running gear was back in it. 7 days a week for two months and we had the the 3 cars done and back to their owners, two of who appreciated our efforts and became permanent customers. The XKE owner was a real dork so we told him to go away. 14 weeks later we were in the black, thanks to my crew chief who was a book keeper when I married her, and had almost more cars to work than we should have been capable of. We did not work 8 days in 1986 but that’s the kind of effort you have to do in any business to succeed. Our goal was to have a satisfied customer base and we achieved that including having the local Porsche dealer as a customer. As a dyed in the wool car nut I can’t imagine how this 911 owner managed to survive this without scrambling his brain completely.
Just goes to show your character versus the shop that went under. How hard would it have been to tell the Porsche owner when he called ” we’re having some issues, come get your car ? I’d of flipped out if that happened to me. I had a construction business for 30 yrs and not everything always goes right but I also spent more than a few sat or sun for free to make sure the customer got what he paid for. Howard is correct we are only hearing the porsche owners view and there are two sides to every story but if what he says is true shows how one crook can make all the honest businesses look bad…..
My kind of guy.
You get what you INspect, not what you EXpect.
You are either an ASQ Certified Quality Engineer or a PMI Project management Professional!
Body men are a “Different breed” of people,many of who you
can’t pin down & get a firm answer.
I had a guy in a one-man shop paint my Datsun 510.It was in
his shop for some time.I once asked him when it would be done.
He replied “Did I tell you about my hunting trip to Oregon?”.
He did finally finish it,& did a great job at a good price.
Got that right, and most are “pushing daisies”. When I delivered paint to body shops in the mid 70’s, spray booths and respirators were few. These guys would come out of the “makeshift” booth they made, literally covered with whatever color they were using. Mouth, nose, eyes filled and THEN, go and smoke a cigarette. They could afford to make their own rules, because it was a trade not many went into. Today, body shops are state of the art, and that doesn’t come cheap. Many smaller shops simply can’t afford the equipment, like a car dealer, or find the help, and go under, many times with several vehicles waiting. It’s the downside of car restoration few like to talk about,,how badly they got bilked by the restorer.
In 5 years, you’re going to be able to write a volume of books with the shelf space of a set of Encyclopedia Britannicas with these stories. Most of those $20k + Mopar and Chevelle rust buckets we see on here will end up in shops for the magical Graveyard Carz transformation
The lucky ones will get a good car a year or two down the line and a crazy bill 2-3x more than originally thought that they hopefully can pay. Some will end up with a shiny and expensive pile of corner-cut junk. And some will end up with shops like this, or worse.
It’s the law of averages. Whenever there’s a lot of money flying around anything, there are always going to be scammers and unqualified people trying to cash in. Always pick a shop with a long track record of quality results, even if it costs a lot more.
One resto shop that I worked for sent the customer monthly bill. When the money ran out the work stopped. So this way there was a payment, and/or dialogue between the shop and the owner. I have heard so many stories. Bottom line is to be careful who you pick to do the work, and be diligent in your communication. Good luck and happy motoring.
Cheers
GPC
The only people that make out on a restoration are the restorers. I laugh whenever I see ” $85,000.00 invested, sell for $35,000.00 obo.” Poor investing if you ask me.
What I tried to get across to my own customers(and I know I talked myself out of a LOT of work) is don’t do this if you don’t intend to keep this car. When you’re building it for yourself/having it built subconsciously you are trying to re-create the new car you always wanted and you spend way too much money on it as you almost assuredly will never get your money back out of it. I’ve built a few for me and I can attest to it. Buy one already done that you have properly inspected as it’s way cheaper and you can enjoy it more.
The only reason some people are alive is that it is illegal to shoot them.
I’m still tying to figure out how you can get too busy and/or “forget” a car left at a shop. Especially if you are married.
I’m guessing somebody with deeper pockets than most.
Umm isn’t this what insurance is for?
Pne had to drive it there and being a Porsche as valuable then probably fully insured.
Still sad and annoying too..
As an owner of a Corvette parts business, I’ve dealt with many shops, and heard all the horror stories from car owners.
I’ve learned when a car gets “forgotten” at a shop, it’s usually because a customer has stopped paying for the work. Sometimes it’s because they don’t have the money needed to finish the job. Sometimes it’s because their spouse pulled the plug on the cash flow, and sometimes because the owner realized it was going to cost more, or need more work, than it was worth.
On the car owners end, it’s usually because they took the car to the wrong shop. Often it’s a body shop, which no one should ever take a car to for a restoration. Body shops are in business to do repairs, and need to do them quickly, if they want to get paid by the insurance company. Body shops take paint jobs and restorations as filler work, and only go near them when things get slow, and/or put their least experience tech on to get experience. The other shops that owners get burned by are the guy with a one car garage, who’s going to do it on the cheap, or the guy who does restoration work as a side work, to his regular job.
If you can’t do the work yourself, you’re usually safest paying the higher cost of a professional restoration shop.
We solved most of the problems you bring up by working a deal with the customer, especially those who ran into financial trouble. We stop work until they say go and charge a reasonable storage fee to keep the car. 99% of the time it worked out for everyone. We were a restoration shop that did repair work as we got the repair business of the owners of the restoration cars. Example, we had a Ferrari customer who’s wife had a habit of running into things with with her BMW. Over the years we got more income out of the BMW than we did his restoration.
There are a lot of angles, and lessons to learn in situations involving shops. First, I am sure everyone on Barn Finds has had or knows of some Bad Shop stories. In most of the many I know of, the car-owner had at least some degree of contributory negligence by: 1) Not thoroughly checking references before dealing with the shop, 2) Paying in full, or large amounts in advance, 3) Not regularly checking on progress In Person.
There are soooo many ways that bad restoration shops can victimize car owners. Besides the usual shoddy work, wrong/inferior parts, some have been known to even steal valuable parts and claim they were defective. One local character (that had previously worked for a large well-established shop) set up his own shop and had multiple frauds going. First he would try to attract customers that were not mechanically savy, but had strong sentimental attachment to the cars they wanted him to restore. He would start doing a little easy work on the cars, with monthly billings. He would then gradually increase the billing amounts (with little or no further work done). After a while he would create a litany of bogus charges, and fees so the amounts owing were vastly over the value of the cars. If they balked, he would threaten (or actually) place liens on the cars. Many customers simply signed the cars over to him. He also did a version of this with cars that were left on consignment. He also did not pay rent to landlords. He would file bogus lawsuits and use every possible loophole to not pay bills. He would eventually get evicted, then turn up later in another jurisdiction under yet a new name . Rinse and repeat.
We should probably address the Bad Customers too. People that don’t (or can’t) pay for the work they signed for. Over the years I have bought many cars in that category. Sometimes I was able to make a reasonable payment to both the owner and the shop, making everyone happy. Sometimes, when the car had basically been abandoned by the owner, I bought it from the shop. Over the years I have bought many this way including: a Rolls Silver Spur, several Jaguars, several Mercedes, a (nice) BMW 2002, a K5 Blazer, a Dodge M37, an ambulance (for movies), and a tow-truck for my shop. I made sure All the legal work was done properly before I took possession. Over the years I did have somewhat irate owners try to get their cars back 3 times (one guy 13 years later on a “parts car” Jag), but none were successful as all were done legally.
If you like to hunt forgotten classics in the usual spots like barns, yards, and garages, I suggest you expand your search to include behind shops and tow-yards.
Pro-tip: Thoroughly study the Repair and Storage Lien laws in your jurisdiction . Shop owners are more cooperative when you can make it easy and look after the legal stuff. Most are happy to get at least some of their money, and get the space back.
What?
I have sympathy for the owner, but Porsche makes some of the ugliest vehicles on the planet, and I would be thrilled if EVERY 911 ended up like this one!
Starting with the 911s which won Le Mans, Daytona, Targa Florio, Paris-Dakar Rally, Monte Carlo rally, every other rally under the sun (except Safari rally, only 2nd there), GT and saloon car championships everywhere in most decades since the 1960s and still doing it nearly 60 years later?
No one was disputing their competition history, but somewhere in those sixty years you cite, could they never afford a decent designer? Why is it some of the competition cars, 906, 908 LH coupe, and the fearsome 917 can look so great, while on the street, people are stuck with the butt ugly 911 and its progeny?
Scottymac, Porsche design is what made them great. Wonder what’s in your garage?
Ditto vw.Dodge. What right-thinking car guy doesn’t like the 911? And I’m the guy who likes 18-feet long Detroit boats. But the early 911 is the best. The world has gone mad.
Nothing close to the cost of a Piggy, my ex-wife was awarded half my pension, half my 401K, and half the house value, after sitting on her arse the whole time we were married. Even if I had the money, would never lust after Zuffenhausen’s best. A 3.0 CSi, now we’re talking! Was it that great Porsche design that screwed so many people with the intermediate shaft bearing failures?
I remember have a numbers matching 1970 Roadrunner six pack back in the early 90’s. I called a restoration shop and said I would like to get it in basic running condition and my budget was about 5k. I went to look at the car at the shop 2 weeks later and it was 100 percent dismantled! Two years and 30k later I got the car back. If my wife had a gun I would have been dead!
Why I’m okay with having an imperfect old car. It’s still around and presentable. The battle scars were all earned.
That’s exactly what I scrolled down to say. I stopped caring a long time ago about perfection or what a car looks like (within reason). Just being on the road at all is an achievement at this point, so if it has a little rust, or 4 different color body panels, who cares. I can’t see them when I’m driving anyway, which is the point (to me) of ownership.
This is the kind of thing that could get me a lead role on one of those A&E shows…. JK
That’s too bad since it looks like they started a good quality job …
Ended: Jan 31, 2022 , 6:25PM
Starting bid:US $0.99
[ 0 bids ]
This listing was ended by the seller because the item is no longer available.
Located in:Chapman, Kansas
sad……just sad.
I also have a bad restoration shop story. Won’t go into details (too long a story) except to say the shop eventually destroyed my car in a fire. In fact the entire shop burned to the ground, which I think seemed a bit suspicious given what I learned about the place. I’ve been a licensed mechanic since 1982, but not as a body man. I did most of my own restoration, but did not have the equipment or skill for some of the body work. Mistakenly took the car to a business that claimed to be a restoration shop. Never again. The whole ordeal, not just the fire, has turned me off the hobby. Better things to do in retirement than fight with these guys. Terrible business to deal with (and money was not the issue). Trouble is it’s hard to know how bad a shop is until it’s too late – even if you get references, which can be dodgy too. It’s not easy finding a different shop to finish a job started by the first one. And who knows if the second shop will be better? I still have a ’52 Chev, but it will never get near a body shop as long as I own it, even though it could use some restoration. Will drive as is.
In mid 80’s I rented a house that had an Audi Fox parked in the driveway. The homeowner offered to sell it to me cheap as it had electrical problem and didn’t run. The car was in good condition and great price ( maybe $200 don’t recall). I towed it to nearby vw/audi shop and they agreed to check out and repair. Drove by occasionally for several months, seeing it in the yard. Calling they said could not get to it yet. Shop had a major fire, but vehicles not damaged in the yard. Didn’t know who to contact about it, but next came registered letter that it had been towed and I was now responsible for towing and storage. The tow/storage company was run out of a gas station and I explained the circumstances and felt their bill was more than car was worth. He agreed to “allow” me to sign over the car to take care of the matter. O.k. Lesson learned.
I’m acquainted with a well to do couple who sent their 1961 Corvette to a shop in St. Louis (they live in AZ) with a goal to build it for the SEMA show. During one 20 minute conversation (monologue actually) with the owner ( a computer engineer) telling me about his super complicated design for the brake system, I was not surprised to hear that after paying the shop $81,000 toward the still on going build, the shop contacted them and told them, “come get your car”. I think the owner poisoned the relationship with the shop with his grandiose plans and his poor people skills. They ended up donating the project car to a technical/vocational school in MO.
Dennis Collins to the rescue?
I had some paintwork done on my TR6 by a chap in Chertsey (UK). He and his wife ran the shop, she did a lot of the prep.
Mostly vans.
It was a high-turnover low margin business.
He had a big shop, but perhaps 80-% of it was filled with ‘projects’, some his own and some customers’. Cars half covered in dust sheets and totally covered in dust.
I wanted the doors of my TR6 done and the bonnet (hood). I didn’t dare to leave the car with him so I took the panels off and took them to the shop.
He was on such a treadmill with the vans, it took weeks to get my panels done. I pretty much had to go and stand over him.
He did a good job, but as said, anything complicated and you risk it being a ‘spare time job that will never get done.
When I needed some paintwork on my Rambler last year I took it to a £££ resto shop and it came back promptly.
Horses for courses, as we say.