Hello! I’m happy to see you, says this 1965 Simca 1000. Do I have anything in my teeth? (teeth = grille) Wait, I don’t have any teeth. This happy little car is listed on eBay with the bidding possibly being more spirited than the driving experience of this 50 hp car would be. The current bid is over $5,000 and the reserve isn’t met! This little French Italian is in Deltona, Florida.
Simca had its roots in Italy and France, and in 1963 Chrysler bought a majority stake in the company from Fiat (what an odd, coincidental, full-circle, tangled web) and in 1964 they bought Britain’s Rootes Group. The hook-up didn’t last too long but Chrysler Europe marketed these vehicles for several years, until the Omni/Horizon took over. Which, believe it or not, were a product of this combined marriage of several companies. Most of us think of the Dodge Omni/Plymouth Horizon as “American” vehicles.
In a move that could make Craigslist’s founders shake in their boots, this seller has provided small, grainy photos! I know, right!? Even eBay listings aren’t always filled with bright, crisp, informative photos. This car has been basically restored, the seller mentions “New interior. New brakes, wheel cylinders, clutch, slave cyl, master cylinder.Door rubbers, windshield rubbers and rear window, new seals. Cute little car, Arizona car originally This car is ready to go, needs nothing, new interior.” You can see that this is a rear-engine car and it’s also rear-wheel drive. The “trunk” is in the front and it looks great, from the small, grainy photos that were provided.
The seller says that this is a new interior and it does look great. The back seat looks like it has a decent amount of legroom for a 12.5-foot long car.
Scootin’ this little Simca along is a “completely rebuilt” water-cooled 944cc inline-four mounted in the rear that shoots out 50 hp. Top speed for this little monster is just under 75 mph and, with a 5,200 RPM maximum, you probably don’t want to take this car on a freeway-only cross country trip. Have any of you owned a Simca of any model or year? I don’t know if I have ever seen one on the street but this sure looks like a nice one.
I remember these as a kid in Ohio. There, if you looked at them they rusted in front of your eyes. They were a VW alternative that all disappeared from the roads within a few short years after they arrived. I’m not sure besides rust, if they potentially suffered reliability or parts issues. This one definitely must have been a dry weather car.
Me too. Like a Yugo only ’60’s.
My aunt had two, even a Rally. She lived at the beach in Zandvoort in the Netherlands. The rust came twice as fast. Alsof, we are not greedy with salt in snowy conditions.
Still a nice little car, espacially the rallye. Almost like a go kart.
It’s an oddball, all right. Very few in the midwest, but not unheard of. I’d have to think the claim of 75 mph may be a tad optimistic, and in a stiff head wind with 4 people, you’d be lucky to get 50 out of it. Horribly inept for today’s US travel. However, for a little putt-putt to the Walmart a mile away, it would be great. I always confused these with the NSU, also very few of which we saw. Just an amazing find.
First car was a Simca 1204. Fun car for a 16 y/o and taught me a lot about R&I and repair of fwd trans a few times. Finally sold after third trans repair.
I had a friend that had a ’69 1204. I got to be the mechanic–and was I impressed! Transverse mounted 4, front wheel drive, thermostatically operated cooling–so many things that are now standard, that were not even thought of in American cars in ’69. Unfortunately, Chrysler, who imported them to the US, forgot they even existed. You could get parts, but it took 2 weeks from France. Like GM, Chrysler bought small companies and had no idea what to do with them. I’ve avoided all things Chrysler since.
Just an Italianised Renault Dauphine/R8/R10. And only 75 with 50 hp? My ’59 Panhard Dyna Z16, with only two cyls, 850 ccs, but 40 hp – again, TWO CYLS, not 4 – does 90 mph and 40 mpg. And it seats 5 much more comfortably than the Renaults or Simcas. Oh, and the Panhards are FWD and far safer in a front end collision. Why are the Panhards so fast? All rollerbearing hemi engine & all aluminum, with a FWD transaxle so light i can pick it up with one hand easily.
As for the Omni-Horizon, a friend and i worked as consultants to Chrysler in the ’80s, and the friend found a VW rabbit in Chrysler’s basement skunkworks, where they were copying it and cloning it. He renamed it “Son of Rabbit” and it sure was –
I was a wrench at a MoPaR dealer when the omnirizon first arrived. In fact, the first Horizons did use engines and transmissions purchased from VW.
Correction – my Panhard above is a ’60 PL17, but mechanically identical to the earlier Dyna of same basic body style.
Not sure who would care about it, but thanks for sharing your photo of your car, seems you absolutely had to
Perhaps Ken felt someone here might be interested in another rare and unusual French car. You aren’t. That’s fine. You could have moved on without the classy comment. Seems you absolutely had to.
I did have to…because apparently we all have to
A friend had 2 of these in the early 70’s…one for driving and a parts car. I remember one memorable trip on Interstate 87, the Adirondack Northway, during the winter. We had to stop every 20-30 minutes to put water in the radiator. Not having any water, we “had” to chug a couple of beers so we could use the bottles to fetch water out of streams. The windshield spritzer froze up so we dumped in some vodka as an anti-freeze. (Didn’t work too well.) The normal two hour trip took about 3 and a half but it got us there! And we were feeling pretty good when we got there! (Not all the vodka went in the car!)
Your story takes me back to my college days!
Back in about 1965 these little Simca’s were used as TAXI’S in Durban, South Africa. Not very successfully as they nearly rusted out between getting in and getting out again. Out of the rust belt though, like up in Rhodesia, (Zimbabwe) they lasted forever. I had a Simca Aronde 1300 and later sold it to my brother who got involved with a Sunbeam Alpine at an intersection that left the right rear fender without paint of any kind. He sold it about 4 years later and the fender was still bright and shiny!
I had a 65 as a student in the UK, mid 70s. Not for long, but it was doing a good 85mph when I blew it up. Not the car´s fault, entirely mine…..
Early ones like this example had no sporting pretensions and very marginal road-holding (you HAD to carry weight in the trunk), but by the late 60s they had developed the Rallye 1, 2 and 3 (like chilli, hotter as you go up in numbers) which were very serious sports jobs, just one step down from Renault 8 Gordini.
They are very good little cars, still popular in historic motor sport.
Ref your write up on ownership of Simca, although Simca´s origins were with FIAT licensed products in the 1930s,(and the 1000 was based on a FIAT design project which didn´t make production) Simca cars were 100% their own from about 1953. I don´t think that FIAT had any remaining share in Simca by the 1960s. Chrysler just took over the company, they didn´t buy FIAT out
I had a perfect one around 1975. Yes, top end was approx. 75. I drove it flat to the floor everywhere. VERY comfortable seats. Can’t remember why I sold it but it gave no problems & I wish I had it back.
I think Fiat France was making Topolinos and other Fiats before WW2; Simca was postwar and building Fords, plus their own cars (with bodywork help by Facel Metallon). This is not authoritative – I am fuzzy on the details – but at some point the Fiat and Simca folks hooked up and that’s why this car has Dante Giacosa’s fine fingerprints all over it, especially the lower-transverse-leaf upper-arms front suspension and the semi-trailing arm rear; it’s just a usefully larger Fiat 600 with a boxy body. About two-thirds of the cars I used to design as my chief time-waster used the Simca front suspension, because at 50″ the track was wide enough for an 84″ wheelbase car.
They must rust like crazy, since they were common as Beetles in some locales; if I wanted one now I’d sniff around Alaska, as they were very popular there and Alaska does NOT use salt on the roads.
944cc makes me think this is a Renault R8 engine and certainly the rocker cover looks Renault. Also, the muffler looks to be definitely Renault R4. If so, this means parts would be a little easier to source.
The Simca 1000 engine was so adanced for it’s time – five main bearings, aluminum cross-flow hemi cylinder head and a centrifugal oil filter built into the crankshaft pulley. All synchro transaxle when many other cars had non-synchro first gear transmissions. I loved mine, can’t believe they’re worth anything though – I suspect shill involvement with auction results like this seen on eBay. No other rational explanation.
The taillights are worth more than the car! Lots of expensive Ferrari’s and Porche race cars, Gt40’s used those taillights, nice little cars though, worked on plenty growing up to be a mechanic !👍
Awesome cars. And the later models handles well. Weighing about 750 kilo, 50 hp can be fun. 88 hp Even more. We did 90 mph in a Rally ll. Rust killed many of them like so many other cars of the 60/70. What really hurt them here in Europe was that the Simca name was dropped after Peugeot took over and haulted parts supplies. Simca started producing FIAT on licence. Then came the Ford period. Simca produced the sidevalve V8 Later used by military up until the 90’s . Chrysler developed a “Hemi” head for the Ford flathead that was produced in Brasil.
A high school girlfriend’s father, an electrical engineer had one. Very eccentric for the times.
A little correction: The Omni/Horizon started development when Chrysler owned Simca and Talbot, but if I remember correctly, the companies divorced before the engineering was completed. I believe the UK Talbot and the French Peugeot 309 are related, but not twins.
Worked at a Dealership that serviced Simca’s, Sunbeam’s, and Fiat’s. I had a Simca 1204 my brother and a buddy drove to Alaska from Oklahoma After I put a clutch in it back in early seventies. It got them there no problem and got side swiped by a semi in the process in Alaska but it kept on ticking. Good times!
As far as good handling goes, I rolled mine in a parking lot AT FIFTEEN MPH!!
My dad got a Simca as a second car, for my mom to use in the early 60’s. He never talked much about it. My fuzzy recollection is it was a big enough sedan to get us three kids to the zoo and ice cream stops. Wasn’t long in our garage, as he took a Vauxhall in trade for clarinet lessons when I was still toddling. That is the first car I remember.
The French were actually the pioneers of the auto biz, folks still believe Henry started it all. He developed real mass production of cars after observing a slaughterhouse & seeing how animals were taken apart – he just reversed the procedure. Panhard is recognized as the first volume producer of practical cars. They were actually building Daimler engines under license starting in 1876 – probably for stationary power supplies – sawmills, heavy machinery, etc. Being a cart-building concern, they just took the obvious next step – producing 26 cars in 1890, and selling a bunch of their engines to Peugeot. Of course no hotrodders know where the name for their panhard rod suspension add-ons came from – ironic. The Citroen DS19 introduced in Oct. ’55 had an aluminum crossflow hemi head, oil slinger traps built into the crankshaft, and FWD since 1935 on the Traction Avant, with an all-torsionbar suspension. Simca also built a very attractive fastback coupe with gorgeous dash which I almost bought 10 yrs ago – never having seen one before. Does anyone remember the name/model?
Simca 1000 Bertone Coupe. Same platform except for 4 wheel disc brakes. I just finished a 4 year restoration of mine
“…Have any of you owned a Simca…”
Yes, several – altho I can’t remember if the R. Dauphines came 1st to our family or these. Along in there somewhere (early) were the semiphore style turn signals.
Move to NE frm Baltimore in a late 50s ford wagon. After mom’s slide on ice into a tree pop started gettin her these smaller cars. Worked very well w/only 2 kids in the fam. Later were the fiat 124 sedan & when no longer the teen taxi she would get the spyders (converts) & finally L. Beta coupe…
I’m talkin 50 yrs ago so it’s nice to see these ol frog cars! Didn’t Maxwell Smart drive 1 down the stairs in an opening scene to every show?
Thanks David – that’s it – Bertone coupe – gorgeous car, I just had too many cars when I saw it. Interesting that it had 4 whl discs. Renault went 4 whl on the Caravelles and R series around 1963. Even my ’64 Bristol 408 went 4 whl but added power – the Europeans/Brits were way ahead of us. When working with all the world’s car co’s I always had to hold my tongue – whether it be FWD, disc brakes, aluminum bodies – the other parts of the world used new technology yrs before us. They had the drivers toward better technology – expensive gas, smalll roads, ancient cities designed for horses, more crowding in smaller spaces. The 1954 Panhard Dyna Z1’s jellybean 4 door bare bodyshell seating 5 was entirely aluminum, and weighed 220 lbs! We finally get the F150 in alloy – took awhile.
Email me at dietzdrummer@aol.com and I’ll send a couple pics of both my 64 1000 and my 66 Coupe.
Lack of technology is what amazes me about the muscle cars of the 60s. They took huge engines and stuffed them into stone age chassis, and now people are paying six figures. Go figure.
luv 2 C pics of these as well…
the ’59 Panhard looks kouwell!
When I was at Fort Rucker in the 8O’s, I bought one of these, perhaps this very car, off of the lemon lot for a couple hundred bucks. I had a hoot driving it around. It was like a go cart. The doors would fill with water when it rained and slosh around amusingly. It overheated one day and I toasted the engine. It would run but needed pistons. When the Army sent me elsewhere, I tried to sell it, but with zero interest, I gave it to my friend Gerry, AKA Volkswagen Guy. Gerry sold it to some other kook who drove it away.
Ken, I like your car and thanks for the photo. Rappel, I hope you have a great Christmas party with all your friends in the local phone box. You poor twisted person.
Wayne, please re-read my comment that was an attempted response to Michael’s snotty put down of Ken’s post. I think you may find we’re in violent agreement.
Wuz or wuz not it the car at the begining of each “Get Smart” episode?
Any 1 remember it driving dwn the staircase @ beg. of each episode?
MikeH, agree with your assessment of the market. For some reason – maybe just our excess of resources vs the rest of the world, our main car interests in the US have been cubic inches and acceleration, rather than handling and efficiency. I’ve always looked for the better ideas and how they were achieved and what the car can do overall. Having motorcycled the French and German and British roads for 6500 miles in 1966, I learned very quickly why French cars take the best care of the owner’s derrierre (terrible roads), why British cars fell behind the rest of the world (isolation and indifference), and German cars are excessively engineered way more than makes sense (rigid thinking), plus how the US enabled the Japanese to exceed everyone else’s quality (The Marshall plan after WWII sent our efficiency expert, W. Edwards Deming, to Japan to help them rebuild their auto industry, and they listened but Detroit did not).
European tax schemes favored fuel economy – the greater the displacement, the more you pay yearly. So engines stayed small but the drive for performance on poor, narrow, twisty roads led most mfrs to work on better handling, brakes, rack & pinion steering vs our sloppy Ackerman worm & sector boxes. Higher hp came from sophistication with OHC, fuel injection way before the US went there, plus hydropneumatic suspension/superlight live rear axles and IRS for both comfort and handling. I only learned last year why some folks love Peugeots when I thought them pedestrian in engineering vs Citroens and Renaults. Then I drove a Pug wagon from N. Hampshire to DC, following my son who was hauling another pug home for recycling. I looked under the rear of that wagon and saw an all aluminum live axle – about 1/3 the weight of steel/cast iron US live axles. To my knowledge it’s the only aluminum axle in production, and it does a lot to make the rear suspension more comfortable and give a rear wheel drive car better handling. I remember renting a Camaro to get to a Delco facility I was working with in the ’80s, and on the beltway around I think Indianapolis, that rear end was hopping sideways at every road joint! Having started my driving life with first a Borgward Isabella TS with Mercedes-type rear swingaxle, then a Citroen DS19, I’d never experienced such strange suspension behaviour, and it was unnerving. I could’ve taken that beltway at twice the speed of the Camaro in either other car.
Anyone in the states still have interest in Simca’s?. My brother and I are going thru our parents house/farm and they still have two Simca’s sitting in the field. I remember my parents purchasing the one brand new and then they bought the other one for parts. I have the title’s. The little cars might have some parts or something that someone can use. The new one still has the engine in it.
Although of course they are rusty…parts might be an option for someone. Contact me at brummrk@cfl.rr.com if anyone would like more info. These cars are in Missouri.
I may be interested, Coleen. Do you know the years and is there one title or two to go with the two cars? How about a quick photo? Depending on where in Missouri you are it should be any easy ride from Tennessee.
The red one is a 67 Simca and I have all sticker sheet, sales receipt all the original books that came with the Simca, etc. The blue one is identical and my parents bought it for parts. I’m still looking for the title for that one or at least a sales receipt. I have a picture so will send to you asap.
Our parents house is located in Steelville, MO.
Will get back to you as soon as I find the picture of them.
Coleen
Here is one pic of the two cars. I have more. So please email me if you want more.
Coleen
I will do just that. Thanks. Are you near the cars on a regular basis? For the benefit of BF readers it may help if you snapped a few photos of the interiors, trunks (if you can open them) and the engine bay. Are the windows all rolled up? Tires for the most part hold air? Any collision repairs or patchwork. I see the driver’s rear fender on the red one looks like it may have been repaired at some point. You may even try selling them here on Barn Finds once an asking price has been established.
I live in Florida but I have more pictures of the inside’s of the cars, plus the engine, etc. Yes, windows are all rolled up. Tires…I’m not sure about that. I’m sure they would hold enough air to get them out of the area they are in and on a truck.
I don’t remember the red car ever being in an accident.
If anyone is interested…I’ll be more than happy to work with them but thru my private email.
Thanks.
Per my original comment..we are asking 600.00 for the two Simca’s. Reply to me if you want more pictures.
Thanks
I’m actually reducing the number of project cars I have around the farm… new baby made sure I wouldn’t have time for anything more than one at a time! But I’ve passed your info onto another fellow who’s into vintage European little cars.
I purchased a 1965 Simca 1000 brand new for $ 1595.00. It came with a 5 year 50,000 mile Chrysler waranty. On a trip it would come close to 50 mph. A lot of great memories.
Mommie drove us kids to music, sports practice, scouts, etc in several (2nd car or ‘the Family Bus”; family/da kid taxi) in a white 1, then a blue ’61 – ’70. Even onto a fiat 128 a lil later in there…love it when the french’n I-talians get together !
Too bad ‘Common Mrkt” (EEU, EU) has not developed this sorta thing…too much bureaucracy? Any EconoPoliticals out there? Geographic Anthropologists? Systemic Theorists? Wha sup wid dat!? Too disconnected frm Brussels?