In spite of the standard legend that the GTO kicked off the muscle car revolution, there were plenty that preceded it and they all didn’t originate in Pontiac, Michigan. But one that actually did, is this first year 1962 Pontiac Grand Prix that is outfitted with the right stuff! Let’s take a close look at this big Poncho, it is located in Los Alamitos, California and is available here on craigslist for $22,000. Thanks to rex m for this tip!
Fullsize was it in ’62. Pontiac did offer the compact Tempest model but the sales action was among the top drawer Bonneville, the Star Chief, and, bringing up the rear, the Catalina. But riding on a Catalina chassis, was the new, performance-oriented Grand Prix. And Pontiac was hot property in ’62, coming in number three in the domestic sales race with 521K units, behind number two Ford and number one Chevrolet.
The seller doesn’t go into much detail regarding this Grand Prix’s condition or operating prowess but the images speak to its condition. The body is straight and uncrumpled but it’s hard to get a clear look at the areas where rust never sleeps – that said, there is nothing obvious regarding corrosion. The paint is faded and peeling and the primered driver’s side fender tells you something happened but at least it’s properly attached. The trim appears to be all accounted for and the bumpers, while both aligned, are starting to lose their luster and some light rust has settled in on the top side of the rear one. The folded convertible top look, utilized by Fisher Body between ’62 and ’64 on full-size Chevrolets, Pontiacs, Oldsmobiles, and Buicks is an iconic GM styling cue. And speaking of that folded-looking steel top, the seller claims that this Grand Prix has a “rare” vinyl top. It seems that “had” would be the operative verb as any trace of a vinyl covering is gone to the four winds. The eight-lug wheels are always a great addition to any big ’60s Pontiac.
Under the hood is where this big whammer-jammer gets interesting, it is a 389 CI “Trophy” V8 being fed by three 2-barrel carburetors (tri-power!) while putting the power to the rear wheels via a four-speed manual transmission. One area of confusion is the horsepower rating, as there was a standard 389 tri-power rating of 318 and a 348 rating for the “Trophy V8 A” engine, both available for ’62. The seller does not elaborate on specifications but if any of our Pontiac aficionados can offer help on this front, it would be appreciated. The seller suggests, “drive while restoring” so I’ll assume that this car is a runner.
The interior is in surprisingly nice shape but then Pontiac “Morrokide” upholstery material wears like steel. The non-claimed mileage of this Grand Prix is 39K miles and while the exterior belies the recorded mileage, the interior is more typical for a lower mileage car that has been kept away from the sun’s damaging rays. The black nylon loop carpet has faded to brown but that is typical, the rest of the interior looks fine. Options include power windows and A/C, no word if it still works.
I’ll admit it, I really like these big, full-sized two-door hardtops, and as I have said before, it’s a body style that we won’t experience again. And marque doesn’t matter, I like them all. The fact that this example has a six-pack and a four-speed manual gearbox makes this Pontiac all that much more of a draw don’t you think?
I’m in!
nice car but priced to high lets get real.
Absolutely, just liked the car :-)
When I was a kid, neighbor had a 63 Impala SS–409-dual quad p-trac 4;11. It was bad. Would love to have this GP-rarity makes it cool
The full size 62 and 64 are the best Pontiacs ever made imo. And a 4 speed! Even without the tri-power this car would be a blast to drive.
Forget the plasticTrans Am’s, this is the real deal. A steal for the money when compared to all the other muscle posted.
I have always wanted one of these with the tri power, 4 speed, and eight lug wheels. But make no mistake. Muscle car = full size car engine in midsize car. A full size car with a big engine does not a muscle car make. The GTO DID start the trend and movement. Thank you John Delorean
A full size 3800 pound 4 speed car with 425 lb/ft of torque would be a pleasant drive no matter what you want to term it. When those were new, nobody I knew called hi-po cars ‘muscle cars’. Listen to the Beach Boys or Ronnie and the Daytonas or Jan and Dean sometime.
The third grade teacher at my elementary school had one of these. The bucket seats were stolen out of it, and it took a while to get then replaced! :-)
And she drove it to work for 3 days without noticing it.
Ha, I knew a guy this happen to in Jersey city-he replaced them with beach chairs for a coupla weeks!
Moparman, the catalina seats were a hot item for use in stock cars, as they were a perfect fit and allowed the driver to move around. MIght be where the buckets went. Good luck and stay safe.
Cheers
gpc
Such a beautiful car. I always liked these, my father had a 67 2+2 and my first car was a 68 Catalina. I’d be proud to call this my own.
When I was 16 took the old man’s 63 Bonnie to the dealer for service and picked a used 61 Catalina with a bubble top and this engine (348 HP) for a loaner. On the way home got pulled over for doing 90 in a 50. Small upstate ny town and by the time I got home the old man was there and said 4 words to me: TAKE IT BACK NOW.
Wonder what else he has on the lot , in the background?
Doone…………what “small upstate NY town”? I’m from Utica.
PS: Really great car…….not sure about the price. Needs much $$ to bring it back to a “really nice” car.
Hey! My wife is from Utica! Born there in 1961.
These are really nice but I think that it is a bit overpriced. Here is a similar one that just sold for $25k I believe
https://www.mershons.com/vehicle-details/1962-pontiac-grand-prix-coupe-4a52108c38374d69a488d9444a95497f
Handsome car. Always loved that swept back wind shield and the 4 eyes.
My favorite Pontiac , maybe even car and I’m GTO dyed in the wool .
These rarely come around at a decent price. I’m in on this if I can sell 65 goat and wagon.
Who am I kidding!
Wife won’t believe either , she’d know something is up
You mention the word “Bonneville” several times in the write up but this is clearly a Gran Prix. 1962 was the first year for the Gran Prix and who can forget the impression of the elegant and restrained 1963 GP… I still remember seeing my first 1962 Gran Prix on the new car lot at the Easley, SC Pontiac dealership and enjoying being able to look it over carefully without anyone bothering a 15 year old kid into big cars. I still am.
You’re right, it’s a Grand Prix. I thought that I had corrected all of the text, I’ll take care of it.
JO
I didn’t know Easley had a Pontiac dealer.
#3 seller and the dunces at G M let the name plate die … toss in Olds as well!
You can thank badge engineering for the demise of Pontiac and Oldsmobile. Remember when GM was sued over consumer complaints that their Rocket Oldsmobiles’ actually had Chevy engines?
Great cars. Had a ’65 GP with a 4 speed. Nothing like a full size with 4 on the floor…
Owner does not mention 389 or 421. On the ’62 GP the 421 engine option was not badged on the car. Given the cars in the background I’m guessing if it was a 421 he would have noted it….
Reminds me of my 63 GP, maroon also. Mine had a factory AM/FM radio with Reverb unit. I should of never given it to my brother, he traded it.
Definitely top car on my bucket list. My dad bought a 62 GP just like this except with an auto trans. I can barely remember it, but I have heard stories from people about how fast my mom drove it !
Great car. The shifter is a little suspect. I don’t remember a reverse lockout…Could be wrong. I have been before.
61s are the best looking IMHO.
I’ll give you the 61 front end, but I like the 62 rear end better. I’d like to see a merge of the two styles on one car.
Back to this car, it checks every possible box for me, great looking, big motor, manual trans, A/C and always the tough one to find, power windows.
AGree. The 61’s are nice because they are “bubbletops” and also about a foot shorter than ’60 and ’62.
You are correct regarding the definition of a “Muscle car….a full size engine in a mid-size car. But make no mistake, a full size engine in said mid-size car does not a muscle car make. A lot of cars are muscle cars simply because of advertising gimmicks.
A 64 GTO =
325-340 hp and 1/4 mile was in the high 14s. The 62 above configured with the 389Trophy, tri-power and 4 speed was around 15.2
A 72 Chevelle SS 402 “muscle car” had a whopping 240 hp.
A 72 454 Vette had 270 hp.
And my anemic ’75 Vette had 165 hp … when I worked at a Pontiac -Cadillac-Toyota GMC store in the mid-80s the Trans-Am had a whopping 150hp while the Toyota Cressida and Supra had 160hp… I remember test driving an ’85 Cressida AT wagon for trade-in and it would get rubber in second gear, something the AT Trans-Am couldn’t … the 80s were a sad time for American “muscle cars” … the 1988 Le Mans was a re-badged Daewoo – how low can you go …
Mark, you’ve done a great job of illustrating the before and after of SAE Gross HP to SAE Net HP (and torque) ratings as American manufacturers switched to SAE Net in 1972. Your “advertising gimmicks” meme might be applied to Gross HP numbers.
An article titled, “Muscle Car Horespower – How Exaggerated Was It?” published in 2013 states:
“Prior to 1972, American carmakers used SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) “gross” measurement of horsepower. Gross meant a figure was taken from an engine running on a test stand, with no air cleaner assembly, accessories or exhaust system connected.
By 1971, carmakers began reducing compression in many engines in order to meet upcoming emissions requirements and the use of unleaded fuel. General Motors and Chrysler began advertising both gross and SAE net figures in 1971, derived from an engine tested with air cleaner assembly, accessories or exhaust system connected.
The net ratings, which were applied across the board for 1972, must have been a shock to some customers. Suddenly, muscle cars appeared to lose 100 hp or more”.
In 1971 the Corvette RSO LS6 454 option was listed @ 425 hp gross – 325 net whereas the LS5 454 option you mention was 365 hp gross – 285 hp net which was reduced to 270 hp in 1972.
The 1971 Chevelle 402 was rated at 300 hp gross – 260 hp net with an 8.5:1 compression ratio. Of special note is that the 300 hp gross was @ 4800 rpm, however the 260 hp net was @ 4400 rpm. Quarter mile time for the 1971 300/260 Chevelle was 15.1 with a trap speed of 94 mph. Not bad.
The compression ratio for 1972 remained @ 8.5:1, but the Net HP was 240 as you point out. Net hp ratings impacted the lesser engines too. The Turbo-Fire 307 ratings for 1971 were 200 hp gross @ 4600 rpm and 140 hp net @ 4400 rpm.
Road and Track had a road test of a 1958 375 hp Lincoln Continental convertible in their August issue. Overall a favorable report, however John R. Bond publisher and tech editor “estimated that the true “as installed” bhp is 200 at 4000 rpm and may go to a peak of 240 at 4800 rpm. If the axle ratio was 3.31, for example, the top speed would undoubtedly be increased, allowing the full 240-hp potential to be released and giving a top speed of about 121 mph at 4800 rpm. Such a change would also improve acceleration…but fuel economy would suffer.” They recorded a top speed of 116 mph, 0-60 @ 8.7 seconds, and a 1/4 @ 16.3 and 81 mph.
Questions about SAE gross horsepower numbers aren’t new. BTW Lincoln lowered the gross numbers in 1959 and 1960 to 350 and 315 respectively at 4400 rpm.
These were beautiful cars, Makes me want my ’63 Cat back. Easiest way to tell the trophy motor from the standard tri-power would be the standard one would have log type exhaust manifolds and the trophy one would have more streamlined units. Eight lug wheels were nice but you better have the adapter in order to change tires (rims are hollow, no centers).
I’m with you Frank! My first was a 63 white Catalina as well.
Wonderful car, and if you pulled (easily) the upper to the back seat out, a full sheet of plywood would fit in the trunk!
My uncle had the Catalina version of this car and his wife at the time, asked a fifteen year old me if I wanted to drive it, and I did, what a thrill for a young kid just learning to drive.
Jim Livie had a New one in ’62! 4spd, sideways everywhere! Arcadia Ca, USA!
Those were THE DAYS!
back when my wife and i got married in 1967 her mother bought us a1962 pontiac 2 plus2 ..it had the 421 cu in. tri-power. talk about a tire burner .i dont recall how many clutches i went thru with my 4 spd.it also had the 8 lug wheels.it was solid white with a tan colored roof and all white interior and console mounted tach.
Didn’t make a 2+2 in ’62! ’64 first year for 2+2!
All the right bones. I think a little pricey considering the condition of body and paint but where are you going to find another one equipped this way?
See my comment above
While not common to stumble upon GPs with the 4spd they do pop up from time to time. Totally agree it’s too pricey, IMO seller is asking double of what he should expect considering it’ll need lots of work/$ to bring it up in the mid 20k range.
The vinyl top (or remnants thereof) intrigues me; to my knowledge GM introduced the vinyl top option for B-bodies in ’63. With that said I have seen ’62 GPs wearing vinyl top, which can of course either have been installed at the dealer as an ‘non-official option’ or during a later resto utilizing ’63-’64 material. The PHS docs will in detail describe how it was born
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1962-Pontiac-Grand-Prix/254898023050?hash=item3b591b2a8a%3Ag%3A8oAAAOSwB5tgNwnL&LH_ItemCondition=3000%7C1000%7C2500
Don’t cry about asking price! Make an offer or move on to the next pic! Ultimately the more informed buyer will be the new owner. No one cares that you think they paid too much.
RUN WITH THE DOGS OR YER A POOCH ON THE PORCH?
wow don’t get nasty maybe you can throw money away LOWELL car isn’t worth that much in that condition in my opinion. To me its a waste of money there are better buys with nice cars for less. If that’s your car then buy it.
Dude.calm down…….its pretty common for folks to opine on the price. After all, most sellers are just out of their mind. The case has been proved by the link abouve showing a ’62 in far superior appearing confdition that may have sold for 25 grand.
In case you didnt get the memo……this is a site for old car fanatics who get to kibbitz about the cars that the BF folks go to a lot of trouble and time to post.. Most have owned any number of particular cars.
I’m guessing you dont own any dogs.
Dude I’m just giving my opinion, I had lots of these cars and still have a 1968 RT Dodge Charger. I have been buying and selling hot rods muscle cars and original cars since 1960. I have been there and done that my friend.
Always liked the 61-65 Catalina’s and Grand Prix’s….Personally, my 2nd car that I owned was a 64 Catalina 2+2 421 c.i. SD 3- 2 barrel carb set up, 4 spd Muncie…AM/FM radio w/ reverb mounted under rear deck, twin electric antenna’s on the rear fenders, 8 lug wheels, Daytona Blue paint, & A/C. I remember having issues keeping the 3 carb setup sync’d so I did replace the intake & carb to a Carter AFB 650 cfm I believe. off a 64 Bonnie. 3 rd car was a 67 Catalina 2+2 it had the 428 c.i. 4 barrel automatic…it was a pooch compared to the 64…both were fairly heavy cars and what I would consider non-muscle cars of the period. Would love to have that 64 back in my possession.
Many have claimed their ’64 Ponchos’ 4spd were Muncie transmissions. However according Les Kasten; who’s regarded as THE authority on big-body Pontiacs; the only correct 4spd in a ’64 fullsize is the T10
I have a 65 delta 88 4 speed and it is a Muncie 20 with a long tail shaft. Is he into A body money? Not sure probably better buy at 12 -15 thousand.
Just as Olds and Buick, Pontiac would ditch their ‘ancient’ transmissions after the ’64 model year (Roto-Hydramatic, Super-Hydramatic, T10) to share the TH400 and Muncie with the other GM divisions ’65 onwards. There was also a HD 3spd ‘Dearborn’ (yes, Ford-built) toploader available
First time I saw one of those Ford boxes in a Lemans I nearly fell over. It was the only all-synchro 3 speed at the time.
Unlike Pontiac and Oldsmobile, Chevrolet started using the Muncie four-speed mid-year ’63. It was a direct replacement for the T-10. I believe that I have covered both a ’63 Impala and a ‘Vette so equipped – in both cases the seller made mention and provided images.
JO
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/muncie-four-speeds
First time I saw a factory air cleaner for the 3 deuces. Complete and cool car. Like Lowell said, talk to the owner and make an offer if you are interested. Finding one this complete with all the goodies is cool. Stay safe and good luck.
Cheers
GPC
Super cool car my oldest brother had one in 1968 but the wiring melted so he bought a 67 GTX 440 MAGNUM
Sheriff is right, They did put ford 3 speeds in them due to a labor strike at the time.
re 4 spd. the T10 was the original trans for these cars, the muncie came standard in later years but interchanged.
Went thru 5 transmissions and switched to a turbo 400 always broke 3rd gear.
also went thru 2 rear ends and had 3 engines in it. Beat that ride hard and it kept coming back for more ’63 cat 421 trips and a 3.64 posi . Aquamarine color.
Just an FYI, 2+2’s were not an option until 1964
Almost forgot, in 1969, High Test was .35 cents a gallon!
I miss the days when it was just a used car.
Bought my first car in ’65 – a ’62 Grand Prix, 4 sp 318/tri power, 8 lug wheels. It had tons of torque and broke the trans/clutch so many times I traded in ’66 for a ’65 442. The 442 didn’t have the trans problems and actually was a better car overall. But I do miss both of those cars, even though I am now a MoPar guy thru and thru. Current ride is ’65 Satellite – 40 over 440/727
On the question of is the engine a 315 hp or a 348 hp, the ’61 right head had an F-4 or M-4 code stamped into it under the serial number/VIN number for the 348 hp version. I assume this did not change for ’62.