When was the last time you spied one of these, a 1939 Ford Thames panel van? Maybe never, right? This one’s an export model as it is equipped with left-hand drive – not exactly what one would expect from this made in England Ford. We have Zappenduster to thank for this unusual tip and it calls Salem, Oregon home these days. Where it has been for the last 85 years is not disclosed. It kinda, sorta runs, more on that to follow.
The seller refers to this wee van as a model E38W but I believe it’s actually an E83W and they were produced between ’38 and ’57 with assembly occurring in Dagenham East, London. Besides this van, body styles included a station wagon and a pickup.
Giving it the once-over visual, it presents pretty well, especially if you like that patina thing. The seller states, “Overall condition is very good, a tiny bit of rust behind the rear wheel on the driver’s side in the back.” Vehicles such as this that possess large, prominent, upright grilles will often reveal a mishap to said grille, but that’s not the case here – no missing teeth.
Back to that operating business, the engine in question here is a 30 HP, 1.2-liter inline four-cylinder. The seller tells us, “Last time I had it running was 2019, but it will fire up for you with some ether or some gas down the carb and put a jump box in, it runs very good actually.” But he later adds that he’s selling it as inoperative. Not surprisingly, a three-speed manual transmission gets all 30 HP (when running) to the rear wheels.
One of the first things that I noticed about the interior is the wood planking that serves as a cargo bay floor – it’s in surprisingly non-gouged condition. Beyond that, it’s about as rudimentary as they come. There’s just a single driver’s seat, no door cards, and the most basic of instrument panels. Still, this van’s innards reveal a solid structure.
So now, it’s what to do with it time. The seller suggested, “We were originally going to use it as a little display rig, little parts runner, with our logo on it, and just have a great time with it.” That seems like a viable direction though using it as a “runner” for anything with its thumpin’ 30 HP might not be realistic. Sure the power could be updated (and no, I don’t mean with an LS engine swap) but then the charm of its originality would be lost. Anyway, take a look at the listing, it’s here on craigslist where it’s available for $9,900 and let me know what you would do with it.
This is a super cool find. (And anyone who says they should hot rod it needs to be tied up.) What a piece of history! I love the wood!
Well I would want to drive it and the only way you could do that is upgrade the power and brakes. 30 hp isn’t going to get this anywhere but rolling in a parade. Make a crazy Gasser but this is a bit rare to go that route.serious about an upgrade though.
Cool project. Eventually when someone buys it, they will likely already have a plan, whether that plan is to restore or modify it is their decision and theirs alone. No matter what route the future owned takes it’s unique and deserved to be brought back to life.
Steve R
The last time I saw one of these was in 1955 in Southern Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) when I worked for GEC and the main storeman owned it and used it as our delivery wagon. The biggest problem with Ford vehicles back then was that they used a three speed gearbox where first and second were far too low and third was far too high so at the slightest hill you had to change down to second and rev the daylights out of it!
The best way to upgrade the power
plant would be use a 2300cc Pinto
engine and tranny, either 4-speed or
automatic would be the way to go here. The Pinto combo puts out about 80 HP(?) That should give you
reliability you’re looking for at a decent price as most all motor vehicles from Britain, France, and Italy
are downright dangerous to own and
drive with their finicky underpowered
engines with all the usual fire hazards
built in. If the electrical system doesn’t burn the vehicle down, a flash
explosion from a leaking side draft
carb certainly will. I saw that scenario on Tru TV in 2011 when a
team of mechanics were working to
get an MG TD to run and drive for a
customer when a flash fire and explosion destroyed the car and put
two of them in the hospital. Another
concern would be finding all the original and unreliable parts to do a
proper restoration on this van. My
vote: equip it with American parts and it’ll be with us a good long while.
“… most all motor vehicles from Britain, France, and Italy are downright dangerous to own and drive…”
That is total rubbish.
👍 Derek
If I may stand up for Ken, not that I have to, there is a bit of merit to that statement, but left out, “for our roads”, they can be downright dangerous. A 30hp motor is what was used to start our much bigger motors, and can’t compare the European offerings to ours, that probably power their tugboats. The fires are not accurate, however. Besides, we all know the future of this truck and dancing around it, resto-mod all the way. That LS swap should do nicely here, and if you think some bloke from England is going to restore this to original, think again. I fear nobody around the world is going to do that anymore.
I see comments like these and always wonder why folks like these read barn finds at all. Does it make people feel better to call things bad names?
Dar-dum Derek!
My MG Y was only dangerous 10% of the time.
The other 90% it behaved like a preacher’s daughter, polite and sedate.
But those 10% of times provided great driving pleasure, not like a ….
And I suppose Yank tanks never caught fire or had electrical problems? Yeah, right. As for the engines being under powered, they weren’t, they were powered for the type of roads that England had back in the thirties, and we still have many of them! I have owned several Riley One Point Fives, a Wolesley 1500, an MG TC and a TD, all with SU carbs and never had a fire.
Owned an MGB/GT for 40 years, never had a fire. I did learn early in my ownership to take care of the electrical system. Also learned never to let the smoke out of the wiring; once you did that the engine stopped running. There are (fictitious) kits sold in order to keep the smoke in.
Well, I know the German army referred to the American tanks as “Bronson’s”, like the cigarette lighter, because of how they burned when shot by a German tank. But IDK if they spontaneously caught fire or if there were electrical problems. My father served in the US Army during that conflict and survived it, and met my mom, and here I am, lol. But all that aside. . . You’re welcome.
Put a Moss supercharger on it. They are small ( popular on MGAs).The low compression engine is ideal for it and you can probably get 50HP which will get you most where you need to go. Also removable if you sell to a purist.
Me personally, because I’m a Ford man, would upgrade the drive train to period correct go faster bits. I’ve seen these with flatheads, and the look and sound is (insert Homer Simpson drawl).
If I remember correctly, a similar Ford Side Valve motor was available as an option in the original Lotus 7s
Look closely at the underhood shots and then the interior shot of the drivers seat taken from the passenger side door. ANY engine swap, including a Pinto 2.3 would be a challenge if you wanted to keep the existing drivers position. The drivers footwell intrudes into the engine compartment. While you couldn’t call this a cabover it is certainly a very cab forward design, intended to maximize the carrying capacity and utility of this commercial vehicle. If you wanted to install a passenger seat it would have to be set well back unless your intended passenger has no legs.
An LS swap? Impossible if you want to keep the drivers seat where it is. If you moved it back you would not be able to see out to the side.
These were popular gasser dragsters in the 60s – particularly the van version. But I think you are right, driver sat well back behind the monster V8
I love this but I’d rather have the Cord bodied Hupmobile in the background.
Nice rare find! And I can’t help noticing that this person has a cool garage with all kinds of neat things in it.
Look at the car behind the van – looks like it could be a Nomad.
I would love the mid-sixties Rambler American in the background!
It would make a great pizza delivery van…as long as the pizza isn’t extra-large!
This is another one where I’m going to say “Thank God it’s on the other side of the country” If it was local, the temptation would be too much to resist.
Not a hot rod, but maybe a restomod to the extent of more engine and better brakes and suspension, because yeah, I’d want to use it. Keep it looking as original as possible; just make it more useful.
I’ve been on this site for quite a few years & never cease to be amazed at the arrogance & ignorance of some Americans .
You might as well say all American cars are underpowered & I’ll handling behemoths.
I’m a muscle car fan & love the outrageousness of them but domestic cars that followed them for the next 15 years were on a par with this prewar offering.
80 hp from a2.3 litre engine! most European 1.6 litre engines of the same period were producing similar power with far superior handling.
One of these vans in this condition in England would be restored as their virtually extinct many have been hot rodded years ago but original steel vehicles from this period are virtually extinct the same for parts even used ones.
And it has semiphores…
I’m a purist on this one, even if it severely limits where it can be driven. On the other hand, some simple things need to be addressed. I owned and drove a 53 F-100 Ford panel truck from 1989 to 2019. I had two errors due to a blind spot backing up, even with west coast mirrors and added convex mirrors on BOTH sides. So, add one on the right side. Check the brakes and make sure they are as good as possible. Then, you are correct, it is a parade and show vehicle or limited to back rural roads, not modern highways. A good weekend driver in those conditions maybe. Be aware of vehicles behind you and pull over as needed to let them pass. From the photos it appears that some accessories have been newly added and with modern plastic-coated wiring. Maybe an easy low-cost fix, going my route. Minimal rust?
I would have a LS stuffed in there in a weekend.
Tried to give you a thumbs up, but not working.
This is where I miss the “Thumbs Down” that BF used to have.
“Stuffed”, exactly
I’d drive it as is around the county. That 30 hp would get me up to 45 or 50 mph on the flat. Its a fine parts getter and or delivery van.
Thank you Howard. Sorry folks, but I
still stand behind that statement only
because the Brits, French, and Italians
didn’t do their homework like the Germans and Japanese did. They actually sent engineers and analyalists
here to study our roads and actually
drive on them just to study the types of cars Americans bought why it was
that we bought them. And when they were through, they went back to their
countries and improved their products accordingly. That’s why you
saw more of their products on the road more than any other import car.
Yeah, those FIAT 500s were cute but
just wait til the engines fell out of them while driving down a brick street. And the Results, Citreons and
Pugeots, just too darned complicated
to repair here in the States. My Uncle
Harold bought a new Renault 10 4-door sedan and was very happy with it– until he had to ship it back to France to have something repaired.
When he got the car back, he dumped
it and bought AMERICAN cars after that. Same thing was true for FIATs.
If something broke, you sent to Italy
through you dealer (if you had one)
and waited months for the part while it was being made by hand as Italy
had no mass production back then.
at the same time you still had to make the
monthly payments on it even though you couldn’t drive it. And to make it
even worse, unions like the UAW and
the Machinist’s union actually forbade
their members from buying any type
of foreign car at all lest you get expelled from the union and fired by the company. But to your defense, you guys did design some nice cars that I like. I really do like the Austin
America, the Bentley S-2, and the
Humber Super Snipe. We nearly put
my sister into an Austin until the two
guys that ran the dealership skipped
town in the middle of the night leaving the many folks who bought one without access to parts and service. Moral of the story: do your
due diligence before trying to sell a car in America.
I absolutely love this little panel. I agree that it is WAY under-powered for driving it, BUT… I think there are several creative ways to change that without destroying it, like an LS. If those LS remarks were serious , there are some very delusional people out there. The thing is this little panel is so trick ,I can only dream about how cool it could be. No major surgery just total refinement of what’s there. Everything stays, the semiphors, the louvers in the back doors, silly taillights, frog headlights, wood floor, and that grille beyond cool and that’s just some of it. I wouldn’t even argue about the price. To quote a friend of mine this would be a “wild ride”!
To answer Jim O’Donnell’ question, the last one of these I saw was running the quarter mile in the 8’s, and definitely not in a straight line!
OH MAN! If I could somehow swing getting this… I’d be there in a heartbeat. British cars have been in my blood ever since I could drive. This diamond is begging to be owned by someone that recognizes its history and rarity. I have one more open bay in my garage where this would fit nicely. Yes, I would restore it to original condition. That being said, it is fun to drive my A40 with a 302 V8 and auto. Then I would have the “meek and the muscle” to play with. Absolutely love this little guy…
El Cordova Garage in Coronado, CA had a yellow Thames like this back in the ’80s. It mostly sat in their “showroom”.
I understand El Cordova is now a restaurant.
I dont think U buy this ‘car’ for it’s power or lack of it.
A very different bug bites before reaching into a pocket.
That debate aside, I sought out something like this and
covered a few https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=thames+panel+truck&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
and
quite a few different companies’s similar model & era.
I finally settled on a Autobianchi Bianchina Furgoncino
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Autobianchi_Bianchina_Furgoncino_tetto_basso.JPG
as just right for the application.
8^ )
I’m surprised that no one has picked up on the ‘dual’ crank handle holes in the lower grille. This is because the drivetrain was ‘offset’ away from the driver…go figure. Perhaps just get this driving and enjoy it (or not) as is..!! Not everything has to be LS powered or restored.
Perhaps then, one hole for RHD and the other for LHD?
You are 100% correct Garry..!!
I’d leave this diamond stock in almost every way. Maybe consider a 1275cc and 4 speed swap from a Midget or similar. Keep it British… This would make a great roommate for my ’50 Austin A40. Also, I’m only 45 minutes away! Dang hospital bills are eating me alive, or I’d pick this up today!
Last saw one of these in the early 1950s while growing up in England. They were everywhere. No V8 would work: it would twist the frame, and you’d need a much better gearbox, brakes, suspension, etc. The long-stroke engine probably has plenty of torque, and 30 hp works fine in my 2CV!
Agree – most posters are arm chair builders and have nothing else to do. They forget when this and others like it were made we didn’t have that big interstate or highway to cruise like now days.
Recently assisted a friend to revive a 1958 Thames 800 van that had not seen daylight since 1968. A true barn find !! Unique, underpowered and butt ugly . Butt it’s a hoot to drive and always attracts a crowd. Revive this one as original and enjoy in. Few and very far between
Jason at DENWERKS. Big seller on the popular auction site and seems to genuinely be an honest, stand up guy. It’s easier when you’re in the PNW with super clean cars everywhere.
Looking at this more and more, it would make a great EV. Where’s Mike
Brewer when you need him?
It seems ironic that today I do own a
foreign car mainly because there are no real American cars left to buy. Our
auto industry sold out for the sake of
profits overseas. And do, I let my girls (SIL and niece), talk me into buying a KIA K-5 sedan. And yes, I
did embarrass them by asking the salesman was this car made here in
the states as Ed China on Wheeler
Dealers gave a list of cars that were
unreliable if they were shipped from
their native countries and not made
here in the states. So do I like the car? It’s okay for what it is but I don’t
like paying $300-$500 every 3 months
for an oil change or having to swipe
an app over your lug wrench to change a tire. Would like to have a
simpler US made car to do Door Dash
with but that’s not gonna happen any
time soon. Nice truck though. Could
Asee using it for Door Dash only if it
could be made reliable enough to do
so.
“…it will fire up for you with some ether…” I’m the same way.
This little darling deserves a kind and loving home. I wouldn’t change a thing. It could live a gentle life in most suburbs, fetching the groceries, toodel-ooing about town to Dr.s appointments, hauling the bats and balls for the little league teams etc.
What a great find. This is even more rare than the smaller 1/4 ton models that are known for their racing and hot rods. Of course that’s with lots of modifications. I would leave this one as stock as possible although I would upgrade the drive train. Probably use a Kent 1600 cross flow. Don’t quote me but I am pretty sure these early engines only produced 10 HP. The 30hp engine came out in the early 50’s with the 100e models. It’s truly a great find and if there was anyway possible it would be mine.
I suggest we make the body slide forward and tilt from the rear forward. Then put Ford twin turbo economy bost engine with automatic trans in the floor of the box. Stock era paint and you have a nice sleeper hotrod!
That truly would be a sleeper, along the lines of putting a big block in a Divco.