In the infancy of the American automobile industry, internal combustion engines were not a sure thing just yet. Ambitious and inventive companies produced workable cars using electricity and steam as a means of propulsion. The most famous and successful of the steam-powered automobile contingent was the Stanley Motor Carriage Company. While earlier examples of the company’s innovative automobiles show up on the market occasionally, later versions are quite rare and sought after. If you are looking for a very distinctive project with a possible high value when completed, then take a look at this 1922 Stanley touring for sale on eBay in Troy, Michigan. Complete and in remarkably original condition, this Stanley is one of the later models produced by the firm. While restoring it will be difficult and expensive, is the $40,000 starting bid too high a hurdle for most collectors? What might it be worth if restored to Pebble Beach perfection?
Let’s start with a comparison. Right now, one of the most talked about situations in the car hobby is the rise of electric vehicles. Government mandates and incentives are attempting to coerce buyers into increasing the number of electric-powered vehicles and eventually eliminating internal combustion engine automobiles altogether under the banner of environmentalism and zero emissions. Technological hurdles and marketplace resistance are working against these goals, which are shared by many of our elected (and unelected) officials. While currently produced electric vehicles have areas where they excel, charging times, a lack of charging stations, and the desire for Americans to go wherever they want to go whenever they want to do so are all factors working to hold back market share for these vehicles. Consumer choice is still a freedom we enjoy on a limited basis.
At the dawn of the automobile age in America, the internal combustion engine was not the only choice for consumers. Vehicles powered by electric motors and steam power were still viable options. To understand this, you must reflect upon what automobile travel was like from the early 1900s to the late 1920s. Most roads were not paved, travel was usually limited to the confines of your city or the nearest town, and roads where you could travel safely above 30 MPH were not yet something you could count on. Automotive technology reflected this. From mechanical brakes, tall ride heights, narrow wheels, and tires, and simple construction that could still be repaired by a talented blacksmith would be the norm until the early thirties. Add to that the dangers of hand-cranking a gasoline engine, the rudimentary network of places selling gasoline, and the variable quality of the fuel at that time.
So, in many situations, the gasoline engine was an option, not a necessity. Electric cars and even trucks were commonly seen in big cities. They still had the same issues concerning charging and range that we see now. It was just that these vehicles were never considered for long-distance travel and were perfect for short jaunts. They were often marketed to women with the main selling point that you didn’t have to hand crank the beast. As for steam, many considered steam engines a proven commodity. Nearly all of the nation’s rail traffic was pulled by steam engines, steam was used for heat and the production of electric power all over the United States, and finding someone who could repair a steam boiler and the parts attached to it was fairly common. These vehicles did use gasoline to heat the boiler, but could also run on fuels such as kerosene in a pinch.
The most famous of the steam automobile producers was the Stanley Motor Carriage Company. “Stanley Steamers” gained fame by setting speed records on the sands of Ormond Beach, Florida, and were quickly the dominant force in steam-powered automobile production. White Motor Company briefly produced steam cars but quickly gave up on the endeavor. Only a small company under the name Doble came close to Stanley’s success in regards to developing the technology. Stanley was able to produce steam-powered automobiles from 1902-1924. Many of them today could be considered mechanical works of art. Despite having low horsepower numbers, these cars were fast for their day due to the tremendous amount of torque the powerplant produced and eerily quiet in operation. The biggest drawback was the time and effort it took to get the car ready to travel. As innovations such as the electric starter made gasoline-powered cars an attractive option, the Stanley faded from the marketplace. Americans then and now want convenience, and, in a free market, they will purchase vehicles that appeal to their wants and needs.
By the time this 1922 Stanley hit the showroom floor, most Americans had determined that they would buy a gasoline-powered vehicle of some sort. Electric-powered automobile choices had all but disappeared, and Stanley’s production of steam-powered vehicles had dwindled to several hundred units per year. The example you see here is one of the few Stanleys that hasn’t been restored at least once. Stanleys were favorites of the early antique automobile movement, so they enjoyed a fairly high percentage of survival. According to the seller, this car has been in their possession for 25 years and it was running at one time during that ownership.
We are also told that the boiler was replaced by one from the Bourden Boiler Works in Vermont. A new burner pan and some replacement pipes were also added during the ownership period. The interior, condenser, gauges, water tank, and much of the piping are original equipment. A replacement top was added when the owner miraculously found one at the fabled Hershey swap meet twenty years ago. To sum up the owner’s position, it is an amazingly original Stanley that needs to be sorted out with someone with experience with Stanleys.
Therein lies the problem. There just aren’t that many top-shelf restorers of cars like this left. Add to that the loss of knowledge over the years in regards to steam propulsion. Could a hobbyist restore this car to operation? Theoretically yes, but steam engines are not very tolerant of amateurs. Jay Leno and his crew are far from amateurs, and his 1907 Stanley was the car he was working on when he received severe burns. The burns were from a flash fire when he was underneath the car. Gasoline to fire the boiler sprayed on him and then ignited. Even without the gasoline, a sudden and violent release of pressurized steam is incredibly dangerous.
Is the difficulty and cost of restoration the reason why this car hasn’t budged off the $40,000 opening bid? Is it the ever-diminishing number of people who are Stanley enthusiasts with the means to restore the car? Or, is it just the falling prices of twenties cars in general? I guess that all of the above are in play here. Make no mistake, this car needs to be restored and/or returned to operation. It is a wonderful example of a branch of automobile development that never really matured. In times such as these, seeing where we came from is vitally important to understanding where we are headed. I hope it finds a good home and ends up back on the road.
Would you take on a steam-powered car as a project? What do you think it would cost to get this car back on the road? How much more would a full restoration cost? Please share your thoughts in the comments.
Fantastic well preserved piece of automotive history. Sadly Jeff, you are correct in the loss of qualified restoration people to take this on. This is going to take the right individual to take this on and sadly most of those folks are probably gone in this day and age. Then there is the dangers involved in operating a steam powered vehicle. I hope someone saves it. Great find !
One too many zeros in the price.
Where’s Jay Leno when you need him?!
Here is another importantly historical vehicle, and IMHO restoration best left to experts (any suggestions, Bill McCoskey?). It’ll most like likely be a costly rebuild as the parts needing repair one would think will have to be completed by an expert metal craftsman. That in itself will be difficult as blue collar skills such as those are extremely scarce in todays USA.
With cars like this and the 1928 Red Bug Electric roadster (National Automobile Museum, Reno) eventually falling to the wayside to ICE the bifurcation of the industry is clearly illustrated which makes this one all the more valuable.
But the many of the challenges they faced are re-emerging now though the lessons learned then are not being remembered-if we don’t learn from the history we’ll just repeat I again..
Nevada,
Probably the least understood [by me] part of the antique car hobby/business are steam cars. I’ve never worked on one, nor driven one. The closest I can come is having owned smaller steam engines I found abandoned in scrap yards.
While this car is said to have a new boiler, from the looks of that boiler, I suspect that “new” boiler may have been added in the 1950s or 1960s, and if so, I’ll bet it’s stuffed with asbestos. If so, plan on spending $3k to $5k on an approved asbestos abatement company. [Legally it’s not something the car owner can handle.]
Something to consider is who bought steam cars when they were new. They were almost always purchased by the wealthy, who had a chauffeur to tend to the car full time, because ANY steam engine requires a high pressure boiler system, generally fed by coal or kerosene.
Deciding to use an electric car in the pre-1920 era was simply a case of unplugging the car from the charger. A gasoline powered car required some additional efforts like hand cranking the engine and keeping the oil and fuel levels up. With a steam car, depending on the year it was built, it could easily take an hour or more to prepare the car for driving. And if you were planning a return trip within a few hours, someone needed to keep the boiler warmed up. The only steam car that didn’t require lots of preparatory work was the Doble, and the few Doble cars sold were some of the most expensive cars available at the time.
I used to cut grass for a lady who told me stories of her family taking trips from Northern Kentucky to Louisville in their Stanley steamer.
The mechanic would have to stop periodically to fix a flat tire so the family would have a picnic while he worked.
Definitely different times!
Many years ago when I was a kid I got to see Ken Maxwell Sr. (Maxwell Wheel Alignment in Tucson, Arizona) restore several Stanley Steamers – they were amazing projects that included rebuilding the boilers. Ken would drive them around the University of Arizona football field during special events. Finding the right person with the needed talents to restore them is probably like finding a needle in a haystack today.
Here is a Stanley Steamer just sold at auction. Described as in running condition with a new boiler. $65,000 in US $.
https://cars.bonhams.com/auction/28308/lot/232/1925-stanley-20hp-model-sv252-a-fixed-head-tourer-chassis-no-25018/
This needs everything. Price should be well under 20K, or maybe even 10.
It could be electrified with a fake steam generator for effect. Electrical cars have fake noise, fake manual transmissions and the lie of zero emissions so a fake steamer would fit right in.
I have worked as a Marine Engineer for over 42 years, the first ships I was on were steam turbine driven. Later diesel powered ones and finally gas turbine propelled ships. In later years the axiom “steam kills” was based on several tragic accidents on ships that were poorly maintained. Looking at this Stanley Steamer and reading readers comments, the buyer of this vehicle needs to proceed carefully in the restoration process, there are a few safety devices that, when operating as designed, can prevent terrible things from happening. Take heart there are people who know how to handle old steam systems installed in tractors, stationary land based steam engines. Don’t forget there are clubs of steam car lovers in our country. There are also museums that have personnel who have a wealth of knowledge. Out here in California we have the Vista Steam and Gas Museum which have some folks who have a passion for land based steam propulsion. There is hope for this car and it should find a proper home.
There are also craftsmen that maintain excursion steam engines. My cousin is one, and he’s in his 40’s
A few years back, witnessed a surreal site of steamer making short work of the Newport Hill Climb.
To restore a vehicle of this type to quality restoration is going to set someone back at least twice the purchase price. May be a good idea to contact several museums about purchasing and restoring.
To operate, will the owner need to be licensed as a boiler operator? What will that entail? I have ridden in a very similar Stanley in Hood River Oregon a number of years ago.
It depends on the State. Here over 15psi needs license. Also a stationary boiler is treated different than a locomotive one.
Thank you
Thats a good question. Im a retired steam turbine licensed operator (1250*F @ 2500 lbs) with a City of Chicago staionary license. What could possibly go wrong with a boiler at 600 lbs (on the dashboard gage)? Personally, if I had the $$ and was 30 years younger Id jump at this. A total car restoration plus the power plant side. Id fire it with propane. Liquid fuel fired boilers (gasoline) in a car is really old school. Ask Jay. BTW, an electric standby warmer could be incorporated to keep the plant warm at a few pounds. Kinda like the old wood fired fire pumpers with horses.
Thank you
Just this past week, I rode the Shenandoah Flyer, a restored J-Class steam locomotive in Virginia. It was restored over a decade at the Virginia Museum of Transportation in Roanoke, VA. I’m sure some of that expertise would apply here.
Excellent write-up Jeff.
Id like to have seen a that subs’ boiler. A scotch boiler perhaps? If it were a nuke a rag wouldnt matter. The whole would be dead from RADs anyway. Sarcastic? Yep… Rag on a broom handle is exactly how we would look for external boiler leaks. That and all the flourescent lights were chain mounted. I guess if “someone told me” Id have to say its all true. Id have to tell you NOT to buy this project. So the boiler design is like 400 PSI. You drive it at 50 psi instead and put around town in a 100 year old car. Does your 600 horsepower Chevelle go get mil at 600 ponies? Please dont be an exspurt.
If anyone wants to see a real one, there’s one in the lobby of the Stanley Hotel in Estes Park Colorado. There’s also a beautifully restored one in the Norwich Car Museum in Norwich New York.
At least maybe start with a static restoration. Like they do with airplanes. Then possibly the interest could spark someone or some group to do the research and fabricate, restore and repair. I would definitely volunteer time and probably a bit of money to be part of a restoration effort for one of these. Imagine all you would learn. It doesn’t just take one person who knows 100 percent, maybe it takes 100 people who know 3-4 percent and work together.
Thats a pretty kind reply! Usually these posts bring out the haters or the 100% experts that cant turn a wrench!
I’m wondering where all the “drop in a V8” comments are. Have we finally found a car that the ratrodders and modifiers wouldn’t want to destroy? A few years ago on another forum some guy was chopping a factory supercharged Graham Sharknose up into a rat rod. That really hurt to see. After he got his jollys the car went to the junkyard.
Just what I was thinking, where’s all the LS swap clowns hiding?
I would think with all the steam powered tractor collectors around the country, there would be some knowledgeable and capable people who know something about these, I’m guessing basically the same operation.
Speaking for myself, I’ve been a mechanic for 50 years, and I wouldn’t touch one of these with a 10ft monkey wrench
I was going there but got sidetracked bashing ev’s.
There are plenty of restored steam cars . A resto mod kept true to appearance would be great.
TomP,
Over the last 30+ years I’ve seen a total of 6 Graham Hollywood cars. 1 was restored to what it was when new. 1 was needing total restoration. The other 4 were turned into street/rat rods.
One of the owners of a beautifully created street rod said when he was deciding what to do with the car; [restore or rod it], he said as a rod, it’s now worth 4 times what it would be worth if restored to original condition.
The rare few with the knowledge that were still around have been taken care of with the clot shot ! Check out steve kirsch for real numbers
I thought this site discouraged political commentary? “Government mandates and incentives are attempting to coerce buyers into increasing the number of electric-powered vehicles and eventually eliminating internal combustion engine automobiles altogether under the banner of environmentalism and zero emissions”.
This paragraph should have been left out all together as it is pure speculation on why people buy an electric car. It has nothing to do with this Stanley Steamer. I am looking at them, but I am not being coerced or eliminate ICE vehicles. I’m just trying to find a way not to transport myself at 20% efficiency, which seems terribly wasteful.
For 30 years I restored and operated steam powered tractors. While there is a learning curve, boiler explosions or accidents are virtually nonexistent (the Medina event is the only recent one and was 100% operator stupidity). You can’t fix stupid, but you can fix and operate a steam car. Jay Leno was not burned by steam, but in the process of lighting his boiler. He knew better. There are tons of YOUtube videos of people lighting burn piles using gasoline with the same result.
This car could be amazing. While a Doble is the king of steam cars, this late model Stanley should be right up there with it. Restoration would involve the same amount of money and commitment of any complex car from the era, but the result would be a unique car that is fun and rewarding operate. 30 years ago you never saw these offered for sale, if I had seen this it would be in my garage today. Alas, those days are gone. Hopefully it is bought, restored and enjoyed.
“While currently produced electric vehicles have areas where they excel, charging times, a lack of charging stations, and the desire for Americans to go wherever they want to go whenever they want to do so are all factors working to hold back market share for these vehicles.”
a few sentences later-
“Add to that the dangers of hand-cranking a gasoline engine, the rudimentary network of places selling gasoline, and the variable quality of the fuel at that time.”
Yes, the gasoline car faced the same hurdles 100 years ago as the electric car does today. Technology and the market will determine the outcome.
Electric cars damage the environment more than gas cars. From the mining for the battery materials to powering the mega-electric plants that are going to be built around the country. At least that’s what I saw on the news.
Be wary of giving advice (or opinions) – wise folks don’t need it and fools won’t heed it.
My GP cousin Dr Bill Burwell was a steam hobbyist and used to recruit my wife and I to work at his bi-annual steam show, he told me that he would use compressed air instead of steam to move some of the machinery around for the show if their boiler was no longer functioning. Perhaps it is an option for parade use or small trips. He also owned a Stanley but the old boiler was getting shaky so it never left the property and only was used at the show.
Yes, compressed air does work for smaller applications, or for moving larger steam engines for short moves. There is an annual event* for miniature steam engines in Lebanon, PA, and as it’s inside a convention center, all the engines are operated from compressed air lines. They run well, but with a vastly reduced power output.
But to equal the force of steam expansion, the amount of compressed air to replace steam for driving a car would require a compressor so large it would need a second vehicle to carry the compressor, with air lines to the steam vehicle.
If I remember, water expands by a factor of 1600% when it turns into steam at atmospheric pressure. Unless I’m missing something, this means the compressor would have to provide a constant 1600 PSI to match the steam equivalent! Just imagine how much compressed air you would need to power a 2 cylinder Stanley car at 30 mph.
*Cabin Fever Expo [https://www.cabinfeverexpo.com/]
Plain and simple – the asking price is too high, no matter what the buyer would do with it. These old ladies were expensive in their day, are rare (compared to Model T’s and Model A’s), and, for many of the lunatic-fringe who like the really old stuff, exciting. Twenty to thirty years ago, the owner would have probably been able to get $40k. But we don’t live in that universe any more. The fact remains that the desirability of cars like these is waning and the number of individuals who have the expertise to restore them is dwindling. If it was priced at 1/4 to 1/2 of the $40k asking price, would somebody take it on? Maybe. If the owner says ‘I need to get ______ or I’m not selling’, then so be it. Will most likely deteriorate further and never be anything but a pile of rusty parts. Sad.
Thank you marks,
Know one wants this old cars they are a time piece of the past we see it all the time now the newer generation doesn’t want them sorry
I meant to also post this barnfind from a couple years ago. It looks like pretty much the same car, beautifully restored. I think it could have been bought for 40,000.00, but the bid was much lower than this ones asking price. No one wrote in if it sold or not or for how much.
https://barnfinds.com/steam-powered-classic-1923-stanley-steamer-limousine/
I had the good fortune to meet or Corbin Benson of Limerick, Maine who won the race up Mount Washington in New Hampshire numerous times in his Stanley Steamer. The car looked like it just came off the show room floor. He has passed away and I think the car is now owned by the owner of Coker Tire in Tennessee (?).
Sadly I find myself agreeing with Charles Marks and dogwater on the views they expressed. Thankfully, there are still the minority dying breed of us who love the cars from this era and hopefully they survive well into the future in home garages rather than only museums. One final thought on the price, it may be an attempt to stop this car from being chopped into a rat rod, street rod, etc and hopefully be preserved and returned to the road under its intended power source. We can only hope this gets saved.
Curious: Has anyone installed a monotube steam generator just like the Doble cars have, in a Stanley like the one here? The steam generator is less likely to have safety issues than the fire tube boiler Stanley used. A small locomotive boiler is what they used. The much faster start up time of a steam generator is a big advantage too. The outside appearance of a small steam generator would be very similar. This option seems obvious to me, since most modern steam plants in operation today are water tube steam generators, not old fashioned firetube boilers. I imagine there are more qualified people that work with monotube generators around today. Just a thought. Thanks for considering this idea.