I must admit to always lusting after one of these. They were just such a perfect design, in miniature, by the legendary Giorgetto Giugiaro when he was at Bertone, which also built the bodies. This one is on Facebook Marketplace in Garden Grove, California, with $4,500 as the asking price. It looks relatively original, but needs plenty of work.
The vendor tells us only that this “all original” car has a clean title and “needs gas tank clean out” and replacement of the rusted battery tray. But it’s also going to need brakes, tires, probably suspension, engine work and an interior. But, yes, this is a “California car” that is “endless fun.” But I’d depart from the idea that someone with “little money” could fully restore it.
The body is the good news, since these cars started rusting the day they left the showroom. Only surface rust on the hood and trunk is visible. The seats need recovering, but the interior otherwise looks surprisingly good. A top isn’t seen—maybe it has one, maybe it doesn’t. The undercarriage is an unknown quality. The engine is there, and doesn’t look hopeless. Everything is there.
The pretty 850 Spider—it’s formal name—was introduced in 1965 at the Geneva Motor Show, alongside the less-pretty (but still nice) Coupé. The 843-cc four-banger produced a mighty 49 horsepower (two more than the Coupé), and could supposedly reach 90 mph—in a while.
The top is folded under a metal body panel, as seen in the photos. The Spider had the friendliest face and was initially popular in the U.S. until rust and reliability problems cropped up. The recessed headlights with plexiglass covers probably didn’t produce much light, but they looked cool.
The U.S. versions got a version of the engine with only 817 cc but with higher compression (which meant premium fuel in the little bugger). This one is a 1968, so it should have the 903-cc version of the engine that debuted that year to make the “Sport Spider.” There was a minor front-end styling that year, too. Spider production ended in 1973, two years after the Coupé. A total of 2.3 million 850s were sold, mostly sedans. Production continued in Spain as the SEAT 850.
Classic.com says one of these in pristine condition is averaging only $8,548, so the smart money might be in buying a restored example. Or getting this one needing to be revived for a bargain price.
My “stories” may be a bit redundant, but the cars are spaced far enough apart, I can get away with it. My neighbor buddy, a 1972 850 coupe was his 1st car. It’s nice it was his 1st car, as everything after would be an improvement. Initially, the car was pretty cool, fun little thing, sounded nice, then the Fiat woes kicked in. Within a couple months, 2nd gear began to grind. He took it in, they allegedly fixed it under warranty, then the little things, gauges, window cranks, everytime he drove it, something broke, then 2nd gear began to grind again. He took it back to the dealer, they had it for about a month, and said there was nothing they could do. He then traded the car for a ’68 Barracuda that was on the lot, with much better results.
The 1967 and earlier years have the flush and fluted or non-fluted glass headlights, and if you are going to restore one, that is a very attractive year! There was a “racer” version made in 1970 and 1971 that had a full hardtop. It is very rare also! The “racer” version was quite spacious inside! This is a unibody car, and rust can be a big issue! Greg Schmidt published some good books on these, and there are rear engine Fiat clubs that you can join. Abarth also made their own versions of the 850 spider, coupe, and racer. I have owned many of the spiders, and one coupe. The X 1/9 was really a leap forward in my opinion!
They may be cute but…. I had a friend who’s dad owned a Fiat dealership and in ’67-’69 several of us worked there. As the boss’s son, my buddy had his choice of cars to drive and we had lots of fun with the little 850s. Two things I clearly remember were the head gaskets and the synchros. The head gaskets seemed to be good for about 10k and blew. Being aluminum, the heads warped and it generally took around.020″ to flatten them again so usually after 3 blown gaskets, a new head was required….. The synchros, as Howard mentioned, were good for weeks, not months or years, particularly if teenaged ‘spirited’ driving was involved. There were several ‘new’ cars with fresh 2nd gear synchros waiting in the lot for their first owners (I never said it was a ‘scrupulous’ dealer). But I will say when they ran, they were great fun to drive. A few years later, I bought a 600D with a fresh motor and it blew the head gasket about 12k miles later – that finally cured me of my love for Fiats.
There are proper procedures for insuring the heads are pulled down so they don’t warp. On small engines like the Fiats and BMC 948s like we use for racing it’s imparative to have ways to make the engines last. Our 948 cc engines have a 16 to 1 compression ratio and we’ve never had a head warp or a gasket blow. We don’t change the gaskets out very often and usually get 10 to 15 three race weekends out of them before pulling the engines mostly to replace the clutch discs. Will be glad to share the information if anyone wants it.
I do know there are many successful aluminum headed engines out here. I was talking about the brand-new Fiat factory built and Fiat dealer prepped cars as sold to the public. Again, I loved to drive them but they weren’t very robust in the late ’60s and had poor service records.
I’d like to hear the head procedure. How can I get it?
First one of these that I got to see up close was a race car. Beautiful lines and the modified engine pushed it along quite smartly thank you. Thing about the race car was that the 275 pound driver actually got in and out of it. As stated, rust was the big problem with these guys.
Good looking racecar, classic European look.
First brand new car I ever owned. Bought one in 1972. Not much power to it. The hamsters always seemed to get it where it needed to go. Still managed to take the big hills on my ride from NYC to Buffalo, NY. I later bought a 1974 Fiat X1/9. To this day I have two X1/9s. My Fiat mechanic and I recently bought a 1971 850 Spider from a guy that had two…a runner and a parts car. We thought about restoring it but had to many projects. We put some time, money and effort into it and sold it to a guy up near Melbourne, FL so he could drive it around town. What a fun car they were/are!
FIAT = fix it again Tony
I’ve also heard it means Eff It All Together. ;)
good grief, that again!
I’m impressed with the mechanical FIAT knowledge here. I’ve always had a soft spot for them as my Italian heritage and my Dad owning two at once in the 70’s bred that. The X1/9 was and still is a car I wouldn’t mind owning. These spiders were pretty cool too but I’d be concerned with the energy it would take to keep them running properly.
Like your dad consider owning two . . . hopefully one is road worthy and you have spare parts with the second. They are definitely cute though I remember people sharing stories of quality issues. My car (59 VW Beetle) wasn’t nearly as cute however it was very reliable.
a fun car (to wrench or drive/own).
Had several younger/older also several larger more lux fiats.
Only the 1968 124 had any problems (many on here refer to). Asa
1st yr entry I think that was rushed and came w/lack of attention.
Of the fiats it’d B hard to pick past an 850. Like the Karman Ghia,
Honda soul, or 914 companies make entry level models that really
soar with style. This was one I went back to it had such joy to own
over all 9 yrs of manufacture.
Starting in the mid-sixties I’ve owned numerous Fiats and several at a time. I’m now down to my 73 850 Spider, last year they were exported to the U.S. I live in Florida, so it gets used frequently year-round since the only thing I have to worry about is the rain. They are fun to drive even if they are extremely small. But I have to admit at 78 it’s getting rough to get in and out of. But I still love my little Fiat.
People who owned these eventually traded them for Lotuses because they needed something more reliable.
The dastardly diabolical swing axle rear suspension would absolutely kept the drivers either on their toes, or on their heads – equal parts of both.
Fortunately, the self-destructing motors reduced the owner’s exposure to only a few months of “spirited” (nee’ drunk) driving. We often considered putting the heads on with wing nuts to facilitate the next head-gasket replacement. Owners usually bought several spare head gaskets to keep in the trunk (thereby avoiding the months-long wait for parts to arrive at a dealership which was likely out of business before the parts arrived). Warranty? Of course, just box the car up and ship it back to Italy, or Poland, or, or… Be sure to enclose a self addressed and prepaid shipping label in order to facilitate its return.
Beautiful little cars for those with a death wish. Even their dealer networks abandoned them. Smart folks.