There are few more heartbreaking experiences for a classic car owner to face than seeing their pride and joy destroyed due to circumstances beyond their control. I speak from bitter experience, having lost a vehicle that was damaged beyond repair while legally parked at the side of the road. Fate has been cruel to the owner of this 1969 Corvette. Fire has laid waste to what was a desirable chrome-bumper ‘Vette that featured a genuine L89 version of Chevrolet’s potent 427ci big-block V8. The fire that caused so much damage seems to have spared the drivetrain, frame, and birdcage. Therefore, somebody may be able to raise this classic like an automotive phoenix from the ashes. Located in High Ridge, Missouri, you will find the Corvette listed for sale here on eBay. The owner has set a BIN of $15,800, and there are currently eighty people watching the listing. I have to say a big thank you to Barn Finder Larry D for referring this major project to us.
It isn’t clear how the Corvette became a burned hulk, but there are good and bad points to consider. The blaze destroyed the fiberglass panels and probably damaged the trim, chrome, and glass beyond salvation. That means that the shopping list of parts will be pretty long. However, there are still traces of the car’s original Daytona Yellow paint visible, suggesting the possibility of a lower intensity fire that may not have stressed the frame and birdcage unduly. It would still be worth consulting an engineer because the worst time to discover there may be a problem is in the middle of an accident. It will cost a few dollars for the consultation, but potential buyers should consider it cheap insurance. The original Black vinyl interior trim is gone, as is most of the interior hardware like seat frames. That parts list will continue to get longer the deeper you delve into this classic.
The desirability of this Corvette would have been beyond question when you consider it was a chrome-bumper vehicle. However, the drivetrain configuration would have lifted it to a higher level. The engine bay housed a 427ci big-block which sent its power to the 4.11 rear end via a four-speed manual transmission. The original owner’s decision to equip the car with power steering would have made it an effortless driving experience. That V8 wasn’t any old 427 because the owner states it was a genuine L89. That made this ‘Vette 1-of-390 equipped with the big-block outfitted with aluminum heads. That brute of an engine was capable of launching the car through the ¼ mile in 13.5 seconds. However, this is where I must raise a note of caution. The motor sitting in this car is a 427, but it isn’t the numbers-matching unit. The same is true of the transmission, and their history is unclear. However, the owner includes the original engine block, although it seems those beautiful aluminum cylinder heads are gone. Finding another set of heads could be a battle, but the buyer might hit paydirt if they bide their time.
Restoring a classic car that has fallen foul of fire damage involves a leap of faith. There is a real danger that if the fire has been intense enough, it could have compromised the strength of vital components like the frame and birdcage. That is why I would spend the money on an engineering inspection to ensure that this classic will be safe to return to our roads. It is encouraging that the paint has survived on the floors because this could indicate a lower temperature that may minimize the drama. However, there are never any iron-clad guarantees in a case like this. Is this a project you would tackle, or is it a car that is beyond help?
The birdcage looks OK on this one…
Is somebody gong to pay 16K for the VIN plate?
I guess so 80 people are watching this
80 people are watching just to see the fool that buys it!!
That was my first thought
No trim tag, no VIN tag. Whats left are remnants of a truck engine. Looks like insurance fraud. Most fires are fraud. Get Barnaby Jones on it
Sherlock- How do you know “most fires are fraud”?
My 1966 corvette 427 4 speed coupe Went up in smoke while at a local shop for wiring. A homeless {)(&^%F83261 set the building on fire. The insurance guy told me. Most fires are fraud straight to my face. I was pissed off but its true after reading on the subject…
According to “GetJerry dot com” (an auto insurance agent), the #1 cause of “devastating car fires” is fraud. VERY FEW car fires start while the vehicle is parked and empty, without some external source (like the building burning down). I can’t find any more definitive statistics, Sorry, Watson.
The trim tag IS there, the VIN tag IS there, the frame stamp is there, and the block stamping with the matching VIN and correct suffix code (LP) for the L-89 is there. Did you even look at the add?
gbvette62…
Yes, the trim tag IS there, the VIN tag IS there, the frame stamp is there, and the block stamping…etc. Along with a SALVAGE title.
Look at ALL the pics. VIN tag is rough but there. Trim tag is there (has been off though, looks like new rivets, originals probably melted in the fire). Pic of the original L89 block stamp is there.
So insurance paid for car and were double dipping on a weakened frame due to heat and a engine needing rebuilt.
Sell the engine as parts and crush the rest please. I really think in situations like this complete 99% total that the insurance company should collect the vin number and the frame to stop future fraud.
To all the vin swappers for fraud have you thought with computers and digital pictures snd the internet that your vehicle will not raise flags on sales and coverage?
Years ago, before titles on badly damaged vehicles were “branded”, I knew some Auto Theft Squad cops that would purposely track such vehicles through the auction process. They would flag the VINs on vehicles that were basically destroyed. The officers were then notified when someone was trying to register the vehicle for road use. They would then locate and inspect the vehicle. The alerts often came in within a few days, or weeks.
Frequently, the VINs were found on stolen cars. Sometimes, the cars were still destroyed, and crooks had plans to use the wreck as a prop for insurance fraud. There were a few less nefarious cases where a complete car had been assembled from numerous wrecks. There were some where people switched VINs to hide assets from divorce, bankruptcy, or repo men (I bought an old Jag in the 80s, and when I went to register it, found out another Jag using my car’s VIN to hide from divorce lawyers).. Most of the Vins (and cars) ended up seized, forfeited, and usually destroyed.
The branding system put an end to a lot of this, but it still continues. There is a steady trade in VINs/with “clean” titles. This is especially true for the collector car market, where a VIN switch can mask a stolen car, or more often legitimize a tribute car and hugely increase the value. I am surprised how many online sites allow ads for buying and selling VINs/titles.
The police don’t generally spot-check older collector cars for VIN authenticity. Frankly there are not that many police experts on older cars.
Bad VINs are more likely to get spotted and reported by civilian experts/collectors. Many times the cars are identified during a pre-purchase inspection. This proves the value of having an expert check any high-value car prior to money changing hands.
Another scenario where such cars are more likely to be thoroughly inspected is in the case of a serious crash, and/or significant insurance claim.
The fact is insurance companies won’t pay out on rides with bad VINs.
While there are very few oddball exceptions, switching VINs is unlawful, Period.
There are likely thousands of cars floating around the market with bad VINs.
My advise is to thoroughly inspect any car you want to buy. Check every number, and look for signs of tampering. It is best to buy cars with Known, provable history. If you don’t have the skills, hire somebody that knows the specific make/model well. If the owner objects, or has “stories”, run, don’t walk away.
Great advice! I did this with my 72 Pantera.
I wonder what color it was ???
It says in the ad, yellow.
Torch-ed Red according to some sleuths.
Good advice, that could save someone from having car seized and destroyed after sinking a fortune in it. Remember that oldie but goodie advice ” Buyer Beware” do your homework first!
A little more on VINs……Most US States and Canadian Provinces did not computerize vehicle registration until the late 70s, or even early 80s. The old ownerships/titles were just typed out. There were sometimes typo errors on ownerships, and even more errors occurred when they were later transposed into the computer systems. Most systems only recorded vehicles that were bing licenced after computerization. So if a car was parked in 1978, and the computerization began in 1979, there may be no record or history. Many jurisdictions did not bother with inactive registrations.
Older vehicles did not have “check digits” in the Serial Number the way VINs do, so most “wrong”, (or fake) numbers were not caught. This is more common than many think as blank VIN plates are readily available from multiple sources. Some fraudsters will copy legit VINs from cars in other jurisdictions so that the VIN will check-digit will verify. VINs copied from far-away dealer websites are a common source.
In many jurisdictions, the old registrations had the vehicle Engine Number, and Serial Number typed in. These often got mixed up, with some ending up with the Engine Number stated as the VIN. It can get confusing as some old vehicle manufacturers actually did use the engine number to identify the car, others used the Chassis Number, or some other number. Certain European manufactures were even known to have used some duplicate Serial Numbers to evade taxes!
I have encountered, and owned many old cars over the years that have had issues with registration. Some were easy to correct (I had a WW2 Dodge that was registered as a DOG), others required much more work. This process can be especially challenging in jurisdictions that use separate titles.
One last point….. Some fraudsters will use copied VINs to list assets as collateral in bank loans. This sort of “automotive identity theft” can be a huge problem for legit owners. In jurisdictions that don’t use the title system, I strongly suggest doing a proper, documented Lien Search before handing over any $. In most jurisdictions, consumers have at least some protection or recourse when dealing with licenced dealers. If it is a private sale….. you may have little chance of getting your $ back.
I’m a court recognized expert in transportation issues, from vehicle values to accident reconstruction and forensic mechanic inspections. I’ve worked for and against insurance companies. Most of the fraud cases I helped solve were for insurers. 3 of my favorite cases [all fires] are these:
1. In Virginia, I was asked to examine a completely burned “1971 Mercedes-Benz 600 Pullman Limousine” that the owner had insured for $150,000 in the 1990s. Didn’t take me more than a few seconds to realize all was not as claimed. Was it the forward facing folding jump seats? How about the 4 cylinder M-B engine? As suspected, the VIN told the truth; it was an European spec 1970s 7-passenger taxicab, valued at a mere $3,500. The owner imported the car, and added the series number “600” to the federal DOT and EPA papers, and Virginia listed it as such on the new title!
2. In Delaware I was tasked with examining a “One-of-a-kind 1959 Sterling town limousine, with a Hooper & Co. body”. The car had been in a hit & run accident that sent it rolling over & over down a steep embankment, only to catch fire once it stopped. The car’s owner claimed it was one of only 2 built for the famous Nubar Gulbenkian of London. [Google his name, he’s a fascinating Gent!]
Well the insurance company hired the right guy for the case; I was a regular visitor to the UK, and was very familiar with the 2 Gulbenkian cars, they were Austin FX series taxicabs with custom bodies. I knew the history of them both, & this wasn’t one of ’em! Turned out the car’s owner simply took an old London taxicab and did a cheap “restoration”, adding lots of “bling” like A/C, a vinyl roof, full bar, electronics, and fake leather interior. It even had a late model Mazda drive train. And of course the VIN said it all; it was a worn-out, bog-standard, Austin FX taxicab. He wanted $100,000. He settled for 3 years in jail!
In Maryland I was asked to investigate a collection of about 6 or 8 [can’t remember the exact number of cars] Ford Model A vehicles, all were open cars, and 1 pickup truck. The fire marshall had already determined the fire was started by arson, not by lightning. My task was to determine the value of the vehicles.
The owner claimed that all the records of the vehicle restorations were destroyed in the fire, but “the restorations were done to Perfection”. Problem was, none of the major Ford parts suppliers had sold Model A parts to the guy, and no one could remember ever seeing the cars at local car shows. He couldn’t remember who painted the cars, or even who supplied the paint & supplies. He claimed he did his own line-boring of the babbitt main bearings!
So I researched the VIN on each title thru various motor vehicle agencies, and tried to contact the former owners when possible. I quickly figured out the guy simply bought old titles, and crudely assembled a selection of home-built cars to match the title descriptions. The car VIN plates and motor numbers didn’t match up to the titles. Not one. I never had to testify in court, as the guy finally admitted what he had done. Never heard if he did jail time or not, but I would assume that he did.
Can’t save them all
Good candidate for a kit car rebody.
I’m thinking Miami Vice Ferrari Daytona body and lots of work. It could be an epic Restomod as who doesn’t want to drive a 427 vette?
Reminded me of a Bad Luck MGB I owned in the late 1970s. I had gone to upstate NY to buy a 1967 911. By the time I got there, the seller had already taken a deposit from someone else. Left, disappointed and saw a 1970 MGB in a driveway with a for sale sign. It looked tired but not rusted too badly so I took the cash I had in my pocket for the 911 and bought the MG. After I had gotten it home, the seller of the 911 called me and said his buyer flaked out and if I wanted it, I could still buy it. I had $3500 and not a cent more and that’s what I paid for the MG. Anyway, I spent nearly a year restoring the MG. When it was done, I took it out for its maiden drive. Afterwards, I drove it into the back yard and parked it. The heat from the exhaust caught the dead leaved on the ground and it burned. Spent another year re-restoring it, and when it was done I took it for a drive. Brought it home and parked it (no leaves around). Woke up the next morning and it was gone. Stolen. It was rcovered a few weeks later. The ignition and some wiring had been ripped out, a coule of dents put into the body but it still ran. Rather than tempt fate once more, I sold it as is.
If it wasn’t for bad luck, you’d have no luck at all.
You could race this, but you’d need a skeleton crew.
Be Careful! I have experience with fire cars. Many years ago a 63 Corvette coupe and a gas tanker collide in Saugus, MA. The person who got me started in cars raced stock cars at New England tracks, Oswego, Connecticut, Maine and a few more. He purchased the burned corvette for the engine. The engine was rebuilt with FI heads, new internals with a then topped off with new Enderle Fuel Injection system. Short story the engine had to be sleeved. The metal properties change after intense heat.
very value added sir, When my 66 went up in flames I innocently though I was going to be able to save the frame so I began working on it. I blasted it and cleaned it. I then lifted it with my Bobcat forks to place it in an area to begin working on it.. it drooped on both ends like a limp noodle, ruined forever… Complete loss!
Now I can see what a bird cage looks like.
To me, this is a “you gotta be kidding” car. A fiberglass equivalent to a rotten to the ground Mopar. Car Burned, Owner got paid. Guess you get a vin, possibly the frame and the original mill without the aluminum heads. for 16 large?? You must consider that whats left there was heat damaged from the fire. I didnt think the 69’s were worth that much coin , Better looker over good and see if you can use whats there. Good luck and happy motoring.
Cheers
GPC
I recall Bob McDorman had a bad fire at his dealership in Ohio many years ago. A 67 Corvette coupe 400 hp was melted to death. Somehow a crew of very skilled mechanics and body men restored the car to new condition. Helps when you are a longtime Chevy dealer who owned probably 100 Corvettes and had NOS parts. This 69 is a sad sight and not for the faint at heart. Gonna take more expense than it will be worth when done even if it is an L89. If it was a 67, different story. Only 16 L89s built, one for a neighbor of then GM President Ed Cole, who told the neighbor to order a 435 with the aluminum heads.
In before the phrase “Vette kart”.
If it were half the asking, and if the strength of the metal could be verified, it might be a great car to rebody. But the current ask is insane, IMO.
. . . if the strength of the metal could be verified, . . .
For those readers who are not familiar with what high levels of heat can do to steel, let me elaborate a bit. I was the victim of not one, but TWO lightning-induced building fires in 1973 and again in 1995, losing over 2 dozen vehicles.
In the first fire, I had a 1956 Packard with the dual quad set-up. As the manifold was hard to find, even though the carbs had melted and run down thru the manifold passages, I wanted the manifold for another V8 Packard I had. So once the cars had cooled off, I pried open the hood and put a wrench to the manifold bolts, only to discover they were finger tight!
Once the manifold was pried off the heads [the carb metal having run down into the head ports as well], I began to clean up the manifold. I set the manifold down on a very flat steel bench, only to realize the big cast iron manifold could be rocked from opposite corner to the other opposite corner, as it was terribly warped, well over 1/4 inch.
I wanted to clean out the old melted carb metal, and started using a 1 pound ball-peen hammer and a small chisel. I happened to miss the chisel once, striking the side of the manifold port. The manifold fractured into 2 large parts! Taking it to a local machine shop to see if it could be welded together, they guys there said to toss it onto the scrap pile, it would never be as it was before the fire.
I mentioned above how I folded the sheet metal hood back to get to the engine. I had no problem simply folding that huge hood [with it’s twin hood scoops stamped in the hood] folding it in half using only my 2 hands. All of the sheet steel was about as strong as a sheet of aluminum foil. I could TAP the fenders with the hammer and leave big dents. The carbon in the steel had been burned out, and it had lost most of it’s strength.
Another car burned in the fire was a 1941 Cadillac convertible coupe. The forged convertible top parts had also lost all strength, and could be easily bent backwards. A friend of mine was standing on the cowl, and when he put a foot on the windshield frame assembly, it bent under the weight of his body!
There are 3 different things at work during a fire; what happens when the car burns, and again when the fire is put out. During the fire, if it gets hot enough as mentioned above, the carbon is literally burned out of the steel. Then as the fire slowly goes out, the metal loses even more strength. And when the firefighters use the water hose on a piece of metal, especially forged or cast iron, that rapid cooling causes the molecular content of the metal to lose it’s crystalline strength and it become brittle.
And any parts like spring steel “turn to mush”. As a joke I took off a throttle return spring and painted it black as if it was new. I gave it to one of my techs to use on another car we were restoring, and when he tried to pull the spring into position, it simply stretched, but never pulled back again! I said “What did you do to that spring?”
So now that you know these situations exist, would you ever want to use a suspension or steering part from a fire car? How about brake drums and shoes? Or a cast iron transmission housing or steering gearbox?
Fire cars need to experience one more fire — when they are sent to the steel mill furnace, to be made into new steel or iron, and the carbon added back in just the right way.