UPDATE 8/22/22 – This dusty LTD has been relisted here on eBay with a slight price drop. Is it enough to convince any of you to move it to your barn?
FROM 7/24/22 – If you’re a wordologist, you’ll know words matter. The thing is, words’ meanings morph over time. For example, the word Xerox means an information technology company and is a specific brand name. But for years people would say something like, “Let me Xerox that page” meaning I’ll make a photocopy, ostensibly on a Xerox copier. It’s the same with barn finds. It originally denoted an old abandoned car found in a barn. If you cruise as many listings as I do in a day, you’ll see that “barn find” now means anything that some flipper has found, sometimes something that is in pretty decent shape and has been parked for maybe all of eighteen months. Well, here’s a barn find as the term was originally intended, a 1972 Ford LTD, off the road since ’07, and it’s sitting in a barn – how unusual! Located in Bloomfield, Iowa, this LTD is available, here on eBay for a BIN price of $4,500. There is a make an offer option too.
The seller tells us, “I know it sounds cliche but it really was driven and an elderly widow“. OK, there’s the making of a barn find if ever there was one. I am losing track of time because at first, I thought, it’s just a ’72, not a ’52 or a ’32 but then had to catch myself and remember that ’72 was half a century ago. While I’ve never been an ouvert Ford fan, I liked the styling of this generation of full-size Ford – it still had a ’60s lightness and grace about itself. The ’73, with its required ramming speed front bumper and more squared lines, just looks clumsy to my eyes. As for this car, the mileage readout is only 69K miles but there’s no claim to authenticity. The seller mentions rust, and that’s apparent but how extensive isn’t immediately obvious. The vinyl top has mostly failed though some of it is still stuck in place. The exterior seems to be intact and there’s no indication of crash damage.
The seller mentions that powering this LTD is a 153 net HP, 351 CI “M” V8 engine that, “will need a little to get it running, but it will run and drive good“. My understanding is that the “M” series 351 engine wasn’t introduced until the 1975 model year, meaning that this motor should be a “Cleveland” derivative unless it’s not original to the car. Again, a reminder for those who may not be familiar, this engine was rated at 240 “gross” HP in ’71 but ’72 saw the use of the newer SAE “net” or “installed” rating measurement so that explains most of the difference in the drop. There was some actual reduction, however, as a result of tightening emission control mandates. All ’72 LTDs utilized a three-speed automatic transmission, there were no other choices available.
The seller suggests that the interior, “is a little rough” but I would withhold total judgment on that assessment as it’s so dusty that it’s hard to get a thorough look at the total environment. The headliner is split and it looks as if the upholstery is coming apart too, thusly releasing its inner stuffing. The dash pad is cracked and the carpet shows as either missing or seriously degraded. Yeah, I guess he’s right, it’s a little rough!
Cleaned up, this old LTD doesn’t look half bad. It’s an absolute commodity car, really nothing special but it is a body style and size that’s no longer found and for that reason, it’s worth saving. As to what to do with it, I’d suggest fixing various items a bit at a time and just returning it to usable driver status, what’s your suggestion?
There are several detail shops within a half hour of this car. Get it there anyway you can. Why?
With that stuffing on the seat and the ‘busted’ seams on the headliner, I can guarantee many mice have enjoyed all parts of this ride. Check out the mound under the hood, too. And the smell, that smell…
Spend a little to make a….well, more!
The stuffing on the seat is headliner. Or something? The seat may be fine. Expect nests. Many nests. Chewed wires. And yes, the smell….
yeah unfortunately mice mice probably absolutely destroyed this car. Great cars though, bulletproof but not miceproof.
I like these big Fords, I’ve had several. Two were big blocks and the ’72 Galaxie 500 I currently own I’ve had since 1995. These are great cruisers that ride like a big car should and were well-built. I’m thinking this car has a 351 Windsor, the base engine in ’72, and not a 351 Cleveland as the only other engines available for ’72 Galaxies and LTDs were the Cleveland-based 400ci and the 385 series 429ci. The ask for this car might be a little much as it seems to be in pretty rough shape. The interior is pretty bad but maybe the exterior will clean up. The rust is an issue and cleaning up that mess under the hood and getting the car started will be a challenge. I think only somebody who really likes these cars will be interested but probably for less money.
I can’t get a good look at the engine but I thought the Cleveland replaced the Windsor in everything, except trucks, between ’70 and ’74. I know that I have seen plenty of BIG Mustangs (’71-’73) with two-barrel carburetor-equipped Clevelands. I’ll also admit that I’m no Ford expert!
JO
My ‘72 Ltd had a cleveland. The valve cover of this car looks cleveland. Probably is.
The C did not “replace” the W. This engine looks like a 335 series, most likely a 400. The M came out later. Don’t think they put 351C’s in full size cars.
I didn’t say that it did, I stated that I thought, “Cleveland replaced the Windsor in everything, except trucks“. I know that trucks used the 351W into the ’80s.
JO
I had a 71 LTD and was a 400 as were most of the other Fords of that vintage I have come across.
Why does it have a 351 sticker on the air cleaner? Bud Lee and Bry593 both state that their ’72s, a Galaxie in Bry593’s case which was powered by a Cleveland, were equipped with 351’s.
I’m not trying to get into some sort of Ford engine debate, a topic that really has little interest to me, I’m trying to determine Windsor vs. Cleveland usage and no one has yet been able to state a timeline or model usage. That’s it, nothing more than an understanding of which was used in what, when.
I’m pretty certain that the engine in question is not, as the seller states, a 351-M
JO
Explain the “351” decal!
JO
The 351 Cleveland was NOT an engine option for ’72 full-size Fords. The confusion may lie in that the 400ci looks like a Cleveland. This car has a 351ci Windsor. Period. If you find a 351 Cleveland in a full-size ’72 Ford, it’s a transplant and not factory correct.
“The Windsor is one of three engines offered by Ford in the 351 displacement. There was also the 351 Cleveland and the 351M (often called the ‘Modified’). The Windsor engine is by far the most common and had the highest production number. Ford produced about 8.6 million units at the Windsor plant. It also tends to be the easiest to find aftermarket parts for, due to it sharing many parts with the 302 small block. The Cleveland and the ‘Modified’ are both based on the same engine, which is entirely different from the Windsor. They call it a Cleveland because Ford cast them in their Cleveland Ohio plant. The Cleveland is part of the 335 big block engine family and was designed for more performance with better flowing heads and a stronger crank. Physical differences include a recessed timing chain, and 8 bolt valve covers vs the Windsor’s 6 bolt covers. The bolt covers are the easiest way to tell if you’re looking at a Windsor or a Cleveland.”
Source: Bullnose Garage.
I knew about the derivations of the name, and the inherent differences, it’s the “what” was used in “what” that I didn’t know. I could never grasp why Ford would come up with three different engines of the exact same displacement – must be a “Ford” thing.
Thx for the explanation.
JO
400 had bigger air cleaner at least the 400 in my folks 72 galaxie they bought new. I think it’s a 351
Given his screen name, I think it’s safe to assume FordGuy1972 can offer intelligent and appropriate comments on this car. It’s obviously not going to be worth big bucks, but I think it has some interest as it represents a time when big two-door coupes were part of the automotive landscape. And while not as over-the-top as say a Mark IV, it still has presence and a degree of coolness. And hard to beat as a quiet, smooth cruiser.
Which brings us to the main point: it is probably (only) a labor of love to bring this one back to even a decent level of respectability and usefulness.
This is not a Cleveland based engine as stated. It’s a 351W. Ford used these on earlier produced models and then switched over to the 351/400M design later in the model year.
On what and when was the Cleveland used?
JO
“In addition to being sold in a Mustang wrapper, the 351C could also be had in the Ford Torino, the Mercury Montego, and the Mercury Cougar.”
I seem to remember it being in Rancheros also.
We’ll get this sorted out yet!
351C was used from 1970-1974. (Wiki)
Based on your previous comment why did Ford make 3 different 351’s I do not think that is as strange as why did BOPC made 4 different 350’s. A 460 in a Ford/Mercury/Lincoln is the same and a 440 in a Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouth is the same. I asked a friend of mine who works for GM to explain once and the answer to me was irrational corporate speak. I will try to boil it down the Ford 351
1) 351W was first 1968 or 69? for some reason shortly afterwards they developed the 351C introduced in 1970
2) Depending on the model purchased is why you got a W or C although some 1970 models early ones were W later production were C and were used only in Mustangs, Cougars, Torinos and Montegos from 70-73
3) It is generally accepted that W’s Had more Torque and C’s had more HP and were quicker that explains why W’s were kept as a Truck motor
Chevrolet, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, and Buick were still separate, independent divisions of GM at the time and possessed their own unique identities so you had a Chevy 350, Pontiac 350, Olds 350, and Buick 350. And it wasn’t just engines as differentials and transmissions varied too based on the division and its intentional autonomous identity.
To the best of my understanding, FoMoCo had a Ford 351(W), a Ford 351(C), and a Ford 351(M).
JO
This looks like a Barnaby Jones car. Though this may not be the year LTD he drove. I can hear the theme music playing…
LOL!! I love that show. Just to watch it and see all the cool cars on that show! 1979 was my least favorite year! That LTD with the single headlight was just fugly.
I might be interested…..if it came with Lee Meriweather(Betty) circa 1970-ish.
STRANGER THINGS. Demigordons no extra charge
i can smell these pictures
Scrap it or parts car to many critters calling it home
My 72 Galaxie had a 351 W and my 72 LTD had a 400 , both 2drs. .
I also can smell it,rip out all interior pressure wash see what you got.
sure looks like a windsor to me, In 1981 I pulled a 351 windsor out of a 72 galaxy 4 door and a 4 speed out of a 65/66 3/4 ton pickup and replaced the 6 cyl and 3 speed in my 74 1/2 ton. Did not have the frame mounts for the V8 so I made the 6’s work, that was a really good truck after I did that. That 6 was pretty weak, the only reason I even had the thing actually. No one else wanted it, that changed after it had power. Finally sold it back to the brother I got it from as they were always coming to where i worked and taking it to pull cars in. Usually left me with the biggest piece of crap to drive home. Poor truck never got the oil checked or changed and it gave up after a year or so
Well, I stand corrected. It is indeed a 351, which means it is a Winsor.
I’ve never seen a 351C in a full size ford.
I keep expecting Karl Malden & Michael Douglas to hop out of it.
I believe all the Quinn Martin productions used Ford vehicles.
I’m still trying to picture Karl Malden hopping.
Exactly like the one Ricardo Montalban drove in his Columbo episode, only different color combo…
https://www.imcdb.org/v136101.html
I’ve got a 1972 Galaxie 500 that is fun to drive and I’ve gotten compliments on it every time I’ve taken it out in public.
I had a 78 Cougar xr7 with the 351m(clevland/400 heads) and a friend had the same car with a windsor. So I believe both were used depending on options.
Don’t believe Clevleland was available i. ’72 but This car is clearly a Windsor.
Also not worth the money and time to resotre.
Definitely worth the time or money to restore if you want one, but not if you want to get auction rich and tell everyone you were on TV.
Exactly but different
About 3500 too much for this mouse hotel. Don’t care what motor is in it. My self wouldn’t put a battery in it and turn the key, may not get that far and it would start smoking somewhere. My nose may not let me get that close.
I am certian that Ford Executives had an evil plan to introduce 4 different versions of 351 CI displacement V-8s so that enthusiasts could argue about it at a future date. Even more confusing:
351 Windsor – 2 and 4 bbl versions, not to mention TBI
351 Cleveland 2bbl
351 Cleveland 4bbl
351 Cleveland Boss
351M 2bbl
Then to really confuse non Ford people and some Ford Guys the 352 FE in 2, 4 and 6 bbl configurations.
Out of all of these the 351 Cleveland Boss is my favorite, however not available on the ’72 LTD.