Another tasty tip comes courtesy of Mitchell G, this time on a 1978 Pontiac Phoenix coupe. Call it a “Why not buy this and drive it?” kind of car. The ad is here on craigslist with a healthy number of images and a thorough description. It’s up for an asking price of $9950 and is available in Lancaster, NH, which is about as far north as you’re going to get before you’re in Canada. Should you feel like it, you could drive this one home, apparently.
The Phoenix of this era was a successor to the Ventura, and was later itself succeeded by the Grand Am. The Phoenix existed in two generations covering 1977-84. The first year, it was an upscale variant on the Ventura, and after that, its replacement. That RWD configuration went from 1977-79. A successor lived from 1980-84, though this second generations varied much from the early models. The 1980-84 Ventura was a front-wheel-drive car built on the same base as the Chevrolet Citation, if that rings any bells, alarm or otherwise.
This car in question is handsomely colored red-on-red, with dog-dish hubcaps sporting the Pontiac arrowhead logo. Other signs of its age include roll-up windows (better teach the kids how those work). If everything sounds perfect, there is one potential drawback. The engine is a 231-CID six-cylinder of Buick origin. That’s not to say that this isn’t a good powerplant, and at 45,000 listed miles, it surely has lots of life left in it. But for those whose nostalgia for the 1960s and ‘70s hinges on the presence of a V8, this car misses. It will be easy to drive with its automatic transmission, though there’s no indication of whether it has power accessories (brakes, steering). But it’s not a car you can even pretend is a muscle machine. Though regarding the lack of a V8—honestly, are you going to know the difference? Even V8s of the day were smog-choked and thus not fast. The point of buying a car like this is that it’s a time capsule, not the very car you would have ordered had you been there on delivery day. It is what it is, in other words.
The six will also be better on fuel, if you’re actually going to use this car, than would a possible 305 or 350. Then there’s the preservation factor. What else are you going to buy for under ten grand that will get you as many looks as this car? In addition to original paint and no rust (as claimed—there are no photos of the underneath of the car) this Phoenix has original paperwork and manuals, preserved because this car was bought new by the mother of the person now selling it. You’re probably not going to get a much more honest presentation than this, and there’s stuff to do to spruce it up, like a thorough under hood detailing. Just don’t drop in a V8—not until you’ve had some miles to think about whether that’s fair, or whether you should just leave this runabout as born.
A buddy of mine had one of these, it was his wife’s commuter. He had to change the timing chain every 10,000 miles. He referred to his wife’s Pontiac Phoenix as the worst car they ever had.
We had a 76 Buick century with the 231V6 and it did the same thing. Every 10-12K miles the chain would start rattling so loud it sounded like a diesel but a higher note. That and the T200 transmission ruined our Buick relationship.
It appears to have power steering (you can just see the cap for the reservoir above the upper radiator hose) but not power brakes.
Good eye. But I believe there were some cars perhaps this was the era where the booster was a hydraulic pump off the fan belt? Short lived for obvious reasons. I had a late 60’s Opel (German, sold through Buick) that had some odd little pump to boost the hydraulics. I never got the brakes properly working new rotors, pads bleeding the lines. No matter what I tried, kept taking air and water in until I bypassed that device and while it took more effort to stop, I was able to drive it enough to unload it. Wish I still had it, but back then little cars with teeny motors just weren’t realistic. The V6 in this Pontiac by comparison is like “An LS Swap with turbo supercharged nitrous bottle mmmmm !” But 1.1 liter and a Solex single probably 35mm throat with linkage issues was as slow and sputtering as it sounds. Embarrassed teenager. Now I wouldn’t give a flip LoL!
This car was featured on here on June 3rd. Back then, it had an $11.5k ask. Price has come down with apparently no takers.
This would offer a pretty ho hum and spartan driving experience. The 231 V-6 only made 105 horsepower in this application, and 0-60 would take 14.5 seconds per Automobile_Catalog. This one has no creature comforts, not even A/C. I cannot tell from the pictures if it even has an AM radio. It wouldn’t surprise me if it did not.
Back then, there were a decent number of people who would order cars equipped like this. They were mostly older and had experienced the Great Depression. They viewed cars as pure appliances. An elderly WWI vet neighbor of mine back in the day ordered a 1977 Nova 4-door sedan equipped like this, to replace his 1967 Biscayne which was equipped the same way. He even got the same color. Today, there would be a very limited market for this car as-is, as the price drop probably illustrates.
The best alternative IMO is to make a very fast hot rod out of it. But for that to make sense, the price would need to come down considerably more. You’d need to beef up the suspension, brakes, rear axle, tires/wheels, etc., on top of the monster mill that I’d love to see this get. Maybe a heavily massaged Pontiac 455 with a supercharger.
LoL! “Hey boys, wanna see my big swapper?!”
The car is fine kept original, fluids flushed get it reliable.
The red bench seat gets used on dates when men ask women out for dinner and a movie. She won’t care if it’s not fast. Only that it’s reliable.
I don’t think it’s overcompensating to tell you the car would be dull once the novelty wore off. I drove these, so i know. I mean sure, I guess that’s subjective. But if you are at all a car enthusiast, you will find it uninspiring. That is all i’m saying.
Seeing comments here and in the post comment section about swapping engines just frustrates me. I get it. I really do. But there are a lot less of these grocery getters left in original form than Pontiac muscle cars. You take this to a show and youll be the only one in a sea of GTOs and TAs. I love it! As far as lack of amenities, all that tells me is theres not much to go wrong.with it. If you could get it for $8 grand, youve got reliable transpo as a daily for 1/3 the cost of a new Corolla.
It’s a neat novelty that you just don’t see anymore. I get that. But unless you’ve got room for several collector cars (which most people do not), you’d get bored with this very quickly. I say this as someone who lived during a period of time when these were standard used cars, and I’ve driven plain jane X-cars (Nova, etc.). There was a reason people didn’t preserve these.
I’d leave this thing visually as it is but it would get a Pontiac 400 and power brakes. Of course you’d have to upgrade a few things to make that work. There’s nothing special about this car the way it is and yeah you could take it to a show in this trim but everyone will take a quick glance and walk on by because it’s extremely boring. This car needs some life injected into it as it’s in such good condition.
Greg I’m Canadian and you put way too much thought into that comment honey.
I’ve got to admit, A for creativity. While we’re doing that, Greg can putter to his bingo game at a safe speed, and hopefully its not too hot in Texas that day!.
Is its motor the last incarnation of the stove bolt six?
Wouldn’t it be long-lived?
We had a family friend who had one of these, but a 4 door. Poverty caps, 6 cylinder, 3 speed manual on the column. But it had air conditioning. Cars like this were everywhere when I was a kid, now you rarely ever see them. Id leave it as is and enjoy it.
Had a 83 Grand LeMans with the same engine and hydramatic 250c and was dead reliable and mostly thrifty. This Ventura could be a nice no frills runabout for erands and back up. I always got about 18/19 in the city but highway sticking at 100 kph got a consistent 29
i had a new 1977 pontiac ventura 4-door…p/s,p/b, upgraded cloth interior
posi-trac…231/six cylinder, maroon…got 10mph/canadian-imperior gal.
piece of junk…kept it until 1981 plymouth horizon came out…
my deepest sympathy to anyone to purchase
3800 V6 swap, maybe add AC and call it a day.
When I finished grad school in 1982 and being brought up on Pontiacs I ordered my first new car, a Phoenix SJ coupe which had the 2.8L H.O. engine with a 4 speed and lots of accessories, dark green and silver. Urban legend was said that an experienced 4 speed driver could get 0-60 in the low 8 seconds, which was actually better than an 82 Trans Am (350, only a 3 speed auto available, 3.23 gears) that could do 0-60 in the high 8 seconds. I know most people go thumbs down on a Phoenix but I drove that thing well over 100,000 miles over 9 years without problems until the clutch went out, and with 3 and 7 year old kids by then the 2 door didn’t work for us anymore (but I did NOT get a minivan). Only about 994 SJ coupes were made in 82 and maybe 250 of them had 4 speeds, I look around every so often but none seem to have survived.
Thanks numskal. That’s cool. I was just researching this not long ago ironically enough. It’s a little known fact that the Citation X11’s LH7 2.8 H.O. motor was offered in other X-cars starting in 1982. It was standard on the Phoenix SJ and Skylark T-Type as it was on the X11. It was optional on the Omega ES and in any Skylark, oddly enough.
Your car was very rare indeed, and an underrated fun to drive performance car. Indeed, there definitely might be 0 of them left on the planet.
Minor corrections to the historical record:
The Phoenix started out as the top-spec version of the RWD X-body Ventura for ’77 with different nose styling, then for ’78-79 all Venturas of any spec (like this one) got the new nose and were rebadged as Phoenix as well.
For ’80 when the RWD X-bodies were replaced by the new FWD X-body cars (Citation, etc.), Pontiac’s version inherited the Phoenix model name, not Ventura which was already a retired name by then.
Yes, this looks like Pontiac’s version of the Nova, with a front-engine, rear drive configuration. The Citation-based X-Bodies had transverse engine mounting with a front-wheel-drive (FWD) configuration. The V6 must have been a Buick-Olds-Pontiac (BOP) option only, because the Chevy versions only used the Chevy 250 I6 as the base motor. Besides, the FWD X-bodies debuted in the fall of 1979 as 1980 models, but this 1978 Ventura predates that by two (2) model years.
I had a similar Canadian Chevy Concours Coupe, gold with a tan vinyl top,in the mid 80’s. Cloth interior, auto, ac, two door 305 v8. We took it from central Mo. to the Gulf coast in E Texas a couple times. We ran down US 86 at 85 plus with all the truckers just flying easy. It was a nice car and my only Chevy owned. The humidity down there got the headliner drooping but we stayed cool and comfortable. I like this car but at 70 years old i’d have to have AC and maybe either hop up the 6 or add a small v8. I don’t know what finally happened to it since she took it in a divorce and left me with a slow Pinto wagon. Damn who wants to go that far for an old Chevy 6.
install a grand nation turbo v6, a bolt in, and go low flying!
HI…you are so right…while waiting for ventura, the dealership contacted me with a 1978 phoenix in the showroom…but had a 305…thought it would be to much to run so i waited for ventura, which gave me major carb problems so would have been better off…cheers
Lancaster is still an hour south of Pittsburg (no, we aren’t talking PA here) – now that’s where NH meets Canada. Wife has relatives all the way up there – definitely God’s country.
About a 3-1/2 to 4 hour drive from Boston to Pittsburg, NH, so figure 2-1/2 to 3 hours to Lancaster, NH. Wildcat Mountain Ski Area is up there somewhere, if I remember correctly. Great ski area, and rarely crowded, simply because it’s such a long drive from either Boston or NYC, well north of Franconia Notch.
Another vote for Wildcat being a real skiers type of mountain.
Yes, I used to PRAy4SNoW so that I could trek up to places like this and enjoy some fresh runs.
Make your best deal, drive it home, drop a LS in it…
here’s a photo of my car except mine was green on top, if you find one let me know!!!!
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/688417493028975211/