Well, this one’s going to get the comments going! Could it be that this is one of only two Corvettes built in 1969 with the famed all-aluminum ZL1 427 CI V8? That’s what the seller claims and it seems to have the right credentials. If so, this is one of the rarest and most exalted Corvettes of all time. I’m intrigued – at least enough to write a review but suspicions will always arise when examining a car of this rarity. This surprising find is located in Upland, California and is available, here on eBay for a current bid of $151,100 with twenty-seven bids tendered so far.
First, some background. In 1969 Chevrolet decided that to be more competitive in Can-Am racing they needed an engine that was more powerful than a modified small block V8 but weighed less than their Mark IV big block. The solution was to take their regular production, off-road 427 CI engine, known as RPO L88 and recast the block in aluminum as opposed to using a traditional iron alloy. Before this new, all-aluminum piece, known as ZL1 could be used in competition, it had to be homologated which meant making it a production piece and satisfying the racing series requirements for engine usage. History shows that Chevrolet produced 71 automobiles in 1969 with this, which was considered at the time to be an exotic, V8 engine. A total of 69 went into Camaros under the Central Office Production Order (COPO) process and two ended up in Corvettes. Barn Finds’ Adam Clarke covered one in this post from late last year. I encourage you to review it and note the disposition venue and estimated price that it would bring. You can read more about the 1969 ZL1 Corvette here.
The heart of the beast is an all-aluminum 430 gross HP, 427 CI Turbo-Jet V8 engine. And by all aluminum, I mean the block, heads, and intake manifold. Items such as the oil pan, valve covers, and timing chain cover remained stamped steel. The engine in this car, which is said, “Runs and drives great” is stamped with the proper “MG” alpha code unique to the ZL1 engine. The horsepower rating is a misnomer as dyno tests that I have seen performed on the L88 iron version, also pegged at the same 430 rating, realistically generate about 530-535 HP. While it seems unlikely that a car of this nature would employ an automatic transmission, it’s not. The car that Adam reviewed was so equipped and I have a 1969 edition of a Popular Hotrodding magazine which featured an L88 equipped ‘Vette and it too, was backed up by a Turbo-Hydramatic 400, three-speed automatic gearbox. Options not available were power steering, A/C, and a radio (the transistorized ignition interferes with radio signals).
The exterior of this Corvette is a bit worn but certainly presentable. The L88 style cowl induction hood is correct and a prototype ZL1 ‘Vette that I have seen before was wearing a similar nose piece stripe. The seller claims that the “Can-Am” white finish is mostly original and he has owned this formidable fiberglass two-seater for four years. Oddly no backstory or history is provided – seems odd for such an auspicious car.
The interior looks sharp but the seller mentions that the seat covers and carpet have been replaced. Note the console sticker which proclaims in bold letters, “WARNING VEHICLE MUST OPERATE ON A FUEL HAVING A MINIMUM OCTANE RATING OF 103 RESEARCH OCTANE AND 95 MOTOR OCTANE OR ENGINE DAMAGE MAY RESULT“. That’s what a 12.5:1 compression ratio gets you and this is the same decal that was used in the ’69 L88 equipped ‘Vette.
So, is this a holy grail car, one of only two produced? From an authenticity perspective, the VIN isn’t included for sequence number matching purposes, the fuel tank has been replaced so the tank sticker, which lists a Corvette’s equipment details, is missing, and the window sticker has deteriorated to the point of illegibility. It seems peculiar that one authenticated ZL1 car would be auctioned at RM Southeby’s with a million dollar+ estimate while our subject car is knocking around on eBay with bidding in the $150K range. Now there were prototypes built but those are usually destroyed so I’m not sure what to make of this one. I must admit that I have my doubts, how about you?
Jim, I was looking at this Corvette on eBay earlier this week and left the page thinking “I just don’t know”. I’d think with a car of this magnitude that somebody somewhere would know at least some history behind it. Maybe some readers can share some more info here, as if this is the real deal it’s a very important (and valuable) C3! And where’s it been hiding?
Exactly Mike!
JO
Sorry Jimmy, no luggage🧳 rack is a deal breaker here. 👋 🏁
I have my doubts, and here is why….this is from Hagerty Classic Car insurance company:
“For a little more background, this will be the first time since 1991 that a Corvette ZL1 comes to public auction. The car that changed hands more than 30 years ago is this orange convertible’s sister—a yellow and black coupe that was auctioned off for $300,000 reportedly after being seized by the DEA.
RM Sotheby’s car due to cross the block in Arizona next month has never been offered for public sale; it was last sold in 2007, when the current owner bought it from the original owner. It then received a restoration by Kevin Mackay in 2014 and was certified by Bloomington Gold as the first of the two ZL1s produced. It’s since been extensively shown and displayed.”
That being said, this looks to be an older “tribute” C3 ZL1. Still extremely cool, though.
👍🤓
The orange convertible that recently sold at RM Sotheby’s doesn’t have any verified/authenticated factory documentation that it left the factory as a ZL1. I know it’s crazy considering it was sold for over $3 million. The consensus is that it left the factory as an L88 and raced with a Zl1 engine in it.
It has a Factory Corvette Order Copy!! aka Tank sticker. Please do your homework.
The two verified ZL-1 Corvettes, the orange and the white, received the go-gast/go loud side pipes from the factory. This white Vette on eBay doesn’t have them. Really strange since GM wanted the Corvettes HP to out produce the ZL-1 Camaros HP. Every other time GM shared special motors between the two vehicles there was either a bracket on the Camaro’s carb linkage to no reach WOT, a cheap RPM limiter added to the Camaro, or the Vette simply came with either more carbs for more HP. Or, the Vette received the side pipes as standard with the hi-po big blocks the Camaros got with street exhaust. It gave a decent extra amount of HP to the Vettes.
Being the ZL-1 Vette was so special and rare no way GM would hide a 3rd version, keeping it quiet, and equipping it with the more restrictive street exhaust to lower HP and sound. They wanted the ZL-1 Corvettes to be top dog and everyone to know they were special.
This eBay car is an old partial clone someone threw an aluminum ZL-1 motor in when the factory iron block blew up.
They made 69 Camaro COPO cars. Today, there are 16,500.
January 26 2023 at Sotheby’s 1969 ZL-1 Orange Convertible went for $3. 1MM.Also in 1991 at US Marsal’s Auction an original yellow ZL-1 went for $375,000.
Not sure about the white one?
That is the auction that Roger bought the car and still owns it.
Roger Judski owns the yellow ZL-1. It is in his Florida shop. I saw it at Bloomington many years ago. The car was seized by federal marshals as the owner was a drug dealer. The paper work was supposedly lost. Werner Maier was hired to authenticate it. He is a retired GM engineer. If anyone wants to know if this white car is legit, contact Kevin at Corvette Repair. He is the premier Corvette restorer. I know of a legit automatic 69 L88. It belonged to a New Jersey man. I saw this car as well at Bloomington in 1988 and an NCRS meet in Jenkintown, PA.
I track 68-72 Corvettes in depth. This is a neat car, but 100% was not a factory built ZL1. It was originally an L71 435 HP car. The tank sticker does not have the J56 power brakes option (Car has non power brakes) list or the mandatory F41 suspension, or the ZL1 engine block option on the bottom of the tank sticker. If you ordered the ZL1 option you had to order the L88 option as well. In addition on the tank sticker you can see where the car had the U69 radio option listed. In regards to the car the hood is not an original L88 factory hood. The car would be a fun car to own but IMHO the bidding is way higher than it should be for a clone that needs to be restored. If this were the other factory built ZL1 in addition to the Yellow car then the bidding would have started at $5 million. The only real documented ZL1 that currently exists is the yellow coupe owned by Roger in Florida.
Hi Survivor69. I thought that back in the 80’s, Otis Chandler had a white ZL1 coupe in his collection. I remember seeing it in a book that documented his collection. Could this be that car? Was the Chandler car an imposter? Just wondering if you had any insight on any of this? Cheers, Carl
Carl,
This is a different car. This is an automatic car, the other white one is an M22 car. Among judges and experts the white car that was owned by Otis Chandler was delivered as an L88 and a Zl1 engine was installed for racing. IMHO both of these white cars have vins too early to have been built as a factory Zl1 car.
My buddies and I are playing a drinking game right now. We have to drink every time someone post “birdcage”.
Interesting stuff. The seller claims that car has the “Original 052, Aluminum ZL1 Block W/Correct MG Suffix code, Dated 11/10/68” in the listing. Do you think this stamping is faked or is it an original aluminum block possibly sold aftermarket through Chevy dealers back then?
Here is the tank sticker for the Yellow ZL1
The two documented to the gunwales ZL1’s have been seen in magazines at auctions etc..neither was white.
Another thing to look at is the ZL1 stripe is not painted correctly, it should go more to the edges and the nose emblem is in the wrong spot. Don’t get me wrong the car would be a fun car to own, but at $151k it is way past all the money on this car.
Devils in the details, for sure!
Back in the 1990’s, a friend and I were at the Corvette show in Knoxville TN. selling a Chevelle. Right next to us in the car corral was a 69 ZL1, 4speed, radio delete, with lots of documentation. The owner was not present so we couldn’t find out the history.
The following January at the NCRS Regional in Kissimmee, I asked one of the judges about the car. His comment was that it was true that there were only 2 that were sold to the general public but there were as many as 25 built and driven by corporate executives. Most of them were destroyed but a few had gotten away and were still around. Seems plausible to me since with special built “factory cars”, everything is the exception and nothing is the rule.
Doug, what color was the car and was it a coupe or convertible?
I believe it was a LeMans blue coupe w/ blue interior. They brought it in an enclosed trailer so there was no tag. The guy that was representing it didn’t seem to know the history of this particular car only that it had been in the owners collection for about 20 years.
Wow!12:5.1cr for the street?where i live there are gas stations here that have race gas all way up to 115 Sunoco.This Vette should be running on 110 to 115 octane to keep it from detonating itself out of existence…
Heard many of the stories bout these cars 1 yellow 1 white then a unconfirmed orange one still it would be cool to own it but to far for me and to look at
Yes very rare 2 maybe 3 built but without the tank sticker won’t know all of the rpo codes to make it a real ZL1 car
here is the first clue that its not real it’s on eBay
Couldn’t agree more. Had the tank sticker but lost it? Yea, right. How do you lose a tank sticker, especdially one that would be worth so much?
If indeed a real ZL1 the onus is on the seller to prove it beyond any doubt, by researching everything and having all the undeniable documentation ready to go when putting the car on the market. This appears to be a relatively rare ’69 L71 427 whose resume is being given the Santos treatment, in the hope that someone may take a chance on it being the real ZL1 deal, so as to hopefully push the price up beyond where it belongs…
To say that it is one of two Holy Grails but not be able to prove it in an iron-clad manner, isn’t serious. To just hope that someone is going to fork out a million or several millions in a blind act of faith, is as serious as Monty Python’s version of the quest for the Holy Grail being accurate history!
The tank sticker in the ebay listing is the one that was lost. I believe the seller. He owned the car then sold it and then bought it back. The last owner misplaced the tank sticker. The seller could have easily listed the car without the picture of the tank sticker as it is evidence that it wasn’t a factory built ZL1.
Looking at the picture of the tank sticker, you can clearly see that the car left the factory as an L71 car without the L88 engine option, the F41 special purpose suspension and without the J56 power brakes. Also, under the engine option description is should read special turbo jet for the L88 engine option and it shows 435 turbo jet, which is correct for an L71 car. Like I mentioned in my previous post it is also missing the aluminum cylinder block option that should be listed on the bottom of the tank sticker.
Not this again. Didn’t we just do this a while back. LOL. He’s an idea. Anyone who had this car or has it would have pictures of it from the ’70s etc. A car this special would have a little bit of local/family history. I just listed an 1970 Torino on FB marketplace yesterday and within 4 hours I had a message from a guy who tried to buy the car in the ’80s and then a message from the original owners cousin, both with stories about the car. There should be some stories to support this car. Instead of “hey look what I found”… one of two..
I’ve always read that there were only 2 factory built ZL-1 Corvettes. The first was the yellow coupe (DEA raid car) with the 4 speed and the other was the orange roadster with the automatic (automatic??!! what were they thinking?). I’ve also read about several ’69 Corvettes that had dealer installed ZL-1 motors and this appears to one of them. So I agree with the previous posts, this is probably not a factory built ZL-1, but still a very nice car.
The documentation on the yellow car has been authenticated and verified. The orange convertible has not been recognized as a factory built ZL1 by a lot of judges and experts. The second production ZL1 has not been accounted for and that is why you are seeing big numbers on this car even though it is a clone. Someone is willing to take the chance to prove that it is or isn’t the second Zl1.
If this is indeed the Otis Chandler car I seem to remember there being some question to the authenticity of the car being a real Zl-1.
Otis Chandler’s car is restored and has an M22 transmission. This car has the M40 automatic .Otis Chandler’s car has a vin that is too early to have been a factory built ZL1, that is why a lot of people question the authenticity of the car.
I.d be interested in how real that motor is..block numbers..heads..intake..cam everything..a real zL motor doesn’t just show up on Facebook on Saturday nite..s..if it’s a fake..it should be described as a fake and not the real thing..this is stupid..like selling a 30 year old house..what’s up…clone cars are killing us..plus 150 k for it is even more stupid..stop it..this is crazy..no ads for fake cars..rj
Maybe if it’s not Real it still would be nice to have if the price was right. I just bought a New Camaro so I’m Happy. Don’t have room for another car right now. Had some people Really Wanting a couple of my Classic Cars for awhile & I might sell them! Good Info from comment’s.
I had an uncle that bought one of these ZL1’s in 1969 before he went to Viet Nam. Unfortunately, he never returned and his mom gave it to Uncle Willie who got drunk and crashed it into a unicorn. It had factory air conditioning. That must have been a rare option on a race car.
Whatever.L88,L78,L79,L76,ZL1, LT1 etc.Chevy power ruled the day,and the competition knew it.
The Ford GT40 ruled the day in June of 1969. The Chevy’s didn’t even finish
hahahahahahaha
I visited Rick Treworgy’s Muscle Car City, Punta Gorda, FL in 2021 before Mecum auctioned the entire collection later that month. I think Mecum results are still online for that auction.
Rick had an immaculate ZL-1 Corvette. I mean perfect!
It only brought about $125K at the auction.
Afterwards, Rick said it went low because it could not be documented.
Jeb you are correct, the blue convertible that was in his collection did not have any documentation and started out as a project car with no motor. It is however a nicer recreation than the one here for sale on ebay, for less money.
Bidding on the car ended at $155,655.00. If I had to place a bet I would say that the car didn’t actually sell and won’t trade hands.
Interesting thought, we will have to watch for this car when it comes up for sale again.
I remember in the early 80’s that the owner of Zip products ,owned one of the ZL-1 Corvettes,