It’s funny how some things change and others stay the same. I’m thinking about the EV argument or discussion – which usually turns into an argument – about the driving range and how much range on a single charge a person really needs for their daily travels. The Anderson Electric Car Company, makers of the Detroit Electric, was talking about whether the average person really needs a 200-mile range well over 100 years ago here. Let’s check out this rare 1917 Detroit Electric Model 68 Brougham.
When I’m not on a 5,000-mile road trip, I could easily get by with a range of 20-30 miles on a daily basis, I wouldn’t need a 500-mile range on a single charge. An EV wouldn’t work for my travels unless there could somehow be a five-minute charging miracle or better yet, just stop, change the battery pack to fully-charged batteries, and be on my way in the same time it takes to fill the gas tank. That is easily the biggest drawback and sticking point for most people when it comes to battery-powered vehicles. #2 would be the towing range, which may never be figured out unless, again, there were replaceable battery packs. I have owned exactly one EV in the last 4.5 decades of driving, my 1973 Aurenthetic Charger mini bike, which has been in the middle of a restoration for a few years now.
Early gas-powered cars were pretty crude, no disrespect intended for their inventors and marketers. They were an incredible invention, but until 1912 when Cadillac came out with the electric starter, they were a pain, sometimes literally, as in broken bones in trying to crank over your car. Women drivers took to early battery-powered cars as did doctors, who both liked the simplicity and guaranteed easy “starting”, not to mention the quiet traveling compared to a smokey, sputtering, gas-smelling car of the era. Not that they were all like that, but there was no comparing the two. EV companies even pulled the “patriotic” card during WWI, so really, things haven’t changed that much in marketing either. Anything to get buyers dipping into their bank accounts was on the table, just like today.
Between 1907 and 1939, the Anderson Electric Car Company (which would become the Detroit Electric Car Company in 1920) sold around 13,000 cars. There were underslung roadsters and all kinds of coupes and sedans for almost every buyer. Or every buyer with suitcases full of $100 bills. The price 100+ years ago is about the equivalent of $45,000 to $70,000 today, depending on the car. A new EV today can cost that much or double that much, so again, not much has changed. This beautiful restored Detroit Electric has around 65 to 100 miles of range, according to the seller’s sign in the photos. Thomas Edison, who provided a nickel-iron battery upgrade for an additional $600 in early 1900s dollars, or $19,000 today (!) had a Detroit Electric, as did Henry Ford (bought for his wife), and also J.D. Rockefeller of Standard Oil fame.
This car has an interesting seating configuration, with the driver on the left side of the bench seat in the rear of the compartment, and a swiveling front seat in the front corner, as seen above, along with a padded single bench seat on the other front corner. This car was restored in the early 1990s and was converted to run on “modern” (at the time) lead-acid batteries, but it hasn’t run in two decades, there’s some corrosion in the battery compartment, and they also mention a dent in the “hood”. This incredible piece of history is listed here on eBay in Greenville, South Carolina, the current (no pun intended) bid price is $44,100, but the reserve isn’t met. Are any of you EV owners?
Something like this would be fun to own. A modern EV doesn’t make sense for my uses, but for a unique weekend driver, this would be pretty cool
This is so much better looking than today’s EVs.
I always liked the design and styling of this style of car. One of these would be a fun vehicle to have go out for a joy ride in. I’m not very fussy about a tiller instead of an actual steering wheel but I guess I could get used to one. And it would be fun to bomb around in.
I actually looked into an EV a couple of years back. If all I had to do was drive it back and forth to work, it could pay for itself. Unfortunately I’d have to park 6 blocks away from work and that wouldn’t be very pleasant in the dead of winter. And I might have to cut a couple of holes in a medium-sized paper sack so I could put it on my head and not be recognized when I drive it.
My wife’s aunt bought one a couple of years back. $88K she paid. She had to make a trip into the city last winter. A 200 mile round trip. The car was inside a warm garage and plugged in. She took off in -27 degree weather and the car lasted (67) miles before the batteries were flatter than pee on a plate. Wife’s uncle rescued her with the GMC Duramax and they went all day without hardly putting a dent in the fuel supply.
I talked to a couple of EV owners and they definitely have mixed feelings. Interesting that my brother, a retired electrical engineer, Living in Tucson, got rid of his (2) hybrids and bought a Ford Powerstroke and a Chevy Impala. He has no intention of getting another EV or hybrid vehicle.
And yet there’s some who think an EV is the answer to their prayers…
AMEN! geomechs…again the voice of reason.
There is absolutely no common sense justification for buying an electric car, be it a Hyundai or a Bolt or a ridiculous looking SUV Mustang.
Leaving aside the supposed ethical issues of battery elements being mined by Chinese children or the fact that the Chinese control the market and, a la Khrushchev’s long ago admonition that “you will sell us the rope with which we will hang you”, more or less, in reverse, electric cars are ridiculously expensive…even with gasoline at 4.55 a gallon out here in fruits and nuts land.
For the life of me I don’t get it. A Prius, I get. The rest including the silly F-150 Lightning, not a all. Different strokes fer different folks I guess.
I totally agree. I live in Oro Valley on the far north side of Tucson and the the extreme heat here is tough on batteries.. some can cost up to $20k these days from what I’ve read. To me they’re impractical in the long run other than making short runs to the grocery store. I’ll take a reliable old school ride any day of the week.. and the fewer electronics it has the better. Even my Lexus RX350 is going to go.. I didn’t realize when I bought it that changing the plugs is a three hour job because you have to remove so much just to get to Bank One. :-(
We have a 2020 Subaru Forester for long hauls and a 2020 Nissan Leaf for around town and trips to the beach. Best of both worlds to be honest. I love the idea of running around town in this old EV but it would suck without a/c. We have only owned the Leaf for three years but it’s been great for everything we need. Use to commute to work 110 miles round trip with a 150 miles battery pack and never worried. It’s way less worry than my old Mustang or 635CSi ever were.
If we ever think range can become an issue we just use the Forester but dumping $40 in gas into it sucks. I wish it had a small battery pack and regenerative braking but alas, Subaru doesn’t agree.
Despite the fact that one would suit my driving needs I refuse to go electric simply because of the kind of people who are trying to force-feed EVs on us en masse. However I must admit that something like this old Detroit Electric would be a blast to drive out to local car shows.
There’s definitely been a lot of “guns held to people’s heads,” by people who haven’t got a clue how things work. That tends to make a lot of us dig our heels in. I told one proponent that when I can go 400 miles on a full charge in the dead of winter and be able to charge my batteries from pee-flat to full-charge in 15 minutes then I’m ready to listen. Until then it’s ICE with mechanical driveline. He snapped, “Where can you fill up your gas or diesel burner in that short of time?” I just pulled out my phone and asked, “Where shall I start?”
-shrug- I like choice in the marketplace, and the competition it brings to said market. Sometimes choice has to be forced into a market that is unwilling to allow it?
Electric doesn’t work for me, right now, and I am impressed with the strides that have been made with ICEs. But I look forward to a day when I am charging my vehicle(s) with excess power from my solar array, and the energy I need for day-to-day living becomes an afterthought. Energy independence feels like the right direction.
If the federal government was as serious about saving the planet as they strongly claim to be geo thermal to heat every home and building would take immense loads off the national grid allowing plenty of electricity to operate vehicles. Until they add geothermal into the conversation they are speaking through their hats!
Choice and forced don’t belong in the same sentence.
Take away the government incentives for one over the other and let a true free market decide.
“…serious about saving the planet…”
“The planet” does not need to be “saved”. (If it did, there would be nothing we could do about it.) Any changes being experienced are due to the forces of nature, which we cannot control. We even recently had over 1600 scientists, including Nobel Prize winners, sign off on a document stating that there is no “climate crisis”. Not for the first time as scientists for many years have been bemoaning the fraud behind the climate hysteria.
Those who believe we are going to take control of the earth’s climate with electric cars, geothermal, solar, wind, atomic energy, fusion, or for that matter magical faerie dust are delusional. To really understand what is going on follow the flow of money and power.
The girls and I are considering a hybrid for our next late model purchase. Haven’t heard anything really bad about Ford’s Maverick pickup other than the 2-year wait list
in order to get one. We live in Florida
so we don’t have to worry about the cold zapping the battery packs as
what happened to Geomechs’ relative. One good thing about this is
my niece has ditched her craving for a
Mustang and now wants a Tesla instead. Used ones are as much as
$48K and that can kill the desire for
an EV in a hurry. They also like the
Mustang Mach E which costs less than a used Tesla and is just as nice.
But the big thing on my mind is can you Door Dash with it? As for this car,
It would be really cool if a reproduction of this car could be built
using modern day tech as far as lithium ion batteries, A/C, and the charge controllers are concerned. I
would also put the driver’s bench where it should be instead of where it is on this car. I’d also use a handlebar
arrangement in lieu of a steering wheel or tiller. That way, you could mount all the controls you need on
the handlebar much the way they are
on a mobility scooter leaving the brake pedal the only device on an
otherwise flat floor. Then, for a final
touch, a solar panel to trickle charge
the car as you either drive it or park it.
Other improvements would be four wheel independent suspension with
for better handling and four wheel
disc brakes for better stopping along
with wider tires for a firmer grip on
the pavement. Well, that’s all I’ve got
right now, anyone else?
Great comments! We never know how EV comments will go here. I could easily own something like this, or even a Comuta-Car/CitiCar since I’d only use it around the neighborhood anyway. There’s something fun about a vintage anything – car, motorcycle, truck, motorhome, boat – even if it’s powered by batteries. Well, maybe not a boat…
Hi Scotty. I followed the logic on EV and it’s come a long way in some respects but in others it’s still 125 years old. It got dropped back then and it doesn’t show much more promise now. Cars like this one, I absolutely love, and sure wouldn’t kick one off my driveway. But I sure couldn’t rely on one for my primary source of transportation.
Skuttlebutt at Navistar was really pushing EV but it’s kind of backed down. I heard about an electric fire truck that was sent to Seattle or Portland. Almost $2M. It didn’t last an hour on its first call out. Truck drivers complain that the battery weight takes up 25% of the load capacity. At the cost of those things they need to haul everything possible or they can’t pay their bills.
The new Scout SUV. I saw the prototype. Looks great but skuttlebutt says that it’s EV ONLY. It is supposed to be released for the 2025 model year but interest has been overwhelmingly in favor of diesel power. Personally, I would like to see one with a 3.3 Cummins diesel and a ZF 4×4 driveline. An EV SUV would be totally useless in Glacier Park…
I have had one EV in my lifetime. Dad got a deal on an electric minibike. Two, to be exact. $50 for both. Put a car battery in it, and off I went. About 40 minutes later, I was pushing the thing through the woods. My 12 year old self said: “What a stupid idea!” 50 years later? I still agree with that.
Jay Leno has a 1909 Baker EV he drives short distances. He is actually an advocate for EVs. I’m not, and all this car here tells me, is we haven’t gotten too far in 100 years. We’re still dealing with the battery, while the “chunk of miracle energy” lies waiting in a warehouse in Phoenix until the gas runs out,,,maybe. “Range anxiety” is still the #1 problem with EVs, and while Scotty mentions about the only thing that would work in a long distance application, the logistics of having “battery packs” lying around, and charging all those, probably wouldn’t work either. EVs are nothing more than a band aid on a heart attack. They can work in a city setting, but any long distance travel requires another car. A REAL car. A swing and a miss for the masses. Unless you want to carry a gas generator around, a hybrid is about the only answer, and doesn’t really answer anything. We Americans have lifestyles that demand gasoline, and will take more than EVs to solve it.
“Fads are top down and trends are bottom up.” – John Naisbitt in “Megatrends,” 1982.
EVs are a classic fad and the masses are figuring that out. They may work in Europe which is much more compressed than the U.S. but our distances and weather extremes, never mind infrastructure problems, make them impractical here except for a very small minority of American drivers.
If there’s a legit alternative to fossil fuel-powered cars it’s probably hydrogen, something Jay Leno said 15 years ago.
That said, a trip to the ice cream shop in this cool EV would make any Saturday afternoon a blast.
One thing is certain in the EV- IC debate, no one is ever gonna drive for free. Whether it’s 6.00 per gallon or some KW per hour fee, the cost is never going down. Yeah Yeah- solar, home charging etc., the government is going to find a way to make everyone pay to drive on the roads. The real advantage of EV’s will be in the long term maintenance costs over IC cars which are overloaded with hundreds of failure prone modules, catalytic converters, cam adjusters etc. crammed on to meet emissions and mileage standards. Once the battery charge time issue is solved, the EV will take over the market.
As a teenager down here in Australia (I am now 71) I used to occasionally cross paths with an old lady driving her pre-1920 Detroit. The car is now in our main technical museum. In regard to batteries, there was a set under the front bonnet and another set under a rear bonnet (or trunk). I was told that you swap sets after one ran out of power. In regard to drivability, there were no fancy electronic controllers but a bank of resistors. It moved off from a start with a jerk. However, the most impressive part which I have never forgotten were the beautiful cut glass vases hanging off the interior roof pillars into which you would place flowers before driving the car.
In the early days of automobiles, it was mostly electric and steam power until Ford brought out a cheap ice car. Until gasoline was widely available, it was the same problem as EV’s. China is doing the same thing with EV‘s as Japan did with their efficient well built cars that pretty much Overwhelmed American car companies. I drive an electric car with the license plate bracket “I would rather be driving a real car”. My classic cars are great fun but not so much for daily drivers. With my electric car I don’t have to mess with all the problems that ice cars have these days that you can’t fix yourself. It’s much nicer driving than any ice car and requires no maintenance. Eventually, when batteries are improved (and they are improving all the time) and charging is more widely available they don’t make sense for everybody and never will make sense for some people. Meanwhile, for some of us, they work quite nicely. What I don’t understand is why so many people feel so threatened by EV’s. After all the more people that drive EV’s the less gasoline costs. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy an EV.
Perhaps I can add something there, first of all, I doubt EVs will have any effect on gas prices in the future. I read there are currently( get it?) 3.3 MILLION EVs in the US today, a 50% increase over 2022, and gas in my area hasn’t gone down, so one can’t argue their popularity. E-bikes too, to the tune of 1.1 million, and growing. 2nd, and probably the biggest concern that seems to get swept under the rug everytime, where is all that juice going to come from? Our electric grid is already overtaxed, and with no new power plants planned, we’re talking a serious shortage. My power “blinks” on a regular basis. Living in a rural area, we have several charging stations, most go unused. Folks that have EVs, charge them at home, and do short trips, and that’s fine, but we’re not talking about those folks. We have a lot of gas cars to replace, and frankly, I don’t see EVs as a viable alternative.
No one is forcing anyone to buy an EV? Except that the powers that be announce, just about every 6 months that they’re going to “phase out” ICE vehicles by 2030, 2035, etc. Do you think that’s just a suggestion?
That is what really makes me dig my heels in. If I buy an EV I want it to be MY idea. I used to read on a daily basis about the new technology that’s coming out but now it’s kind of faded back a couple of pages. But there’s a lot of people, even those who make the rules, who haven’t got the first clue where the power is going to come from to supply the grids.
Since the “thumbs up” icon STILL doesn’t work? I proudly will say Thumbs Up! To your comment.
no one is forcing anyone to buy an EV?… Well…the government is forcing car companies to make less gasoline cars and more EVs…I think they have until 2035 to ” adjust” that and then if they don t they will be paying fines…the public will be forced to buy what is available; mostly EVs…
I’ve been driving EVs for 13 years, and they have improved greatly during that time. My current EV is 5 years old, so not quite as good as new ones, but I’ve still taken several long trips in it. Driving an EV on a trip takes a different mindset and more planning than an ICE vehicle. If you do the drive til empty then fill up like on a gas car, you’ll spend a lot of time charging, so it’s no wonder people don’t like electric cars. Instead, plan to charge every time you stop. I know how often I have to stop, so I find DC fast charging stations at those intervals. I stop, plug in, then go to the bathroom, grab a snack, and stretch my legs a bit. No need to stay with the car like when fueling a gas car. When I’m ready, I unplug the car, and drive to my next planned stop. My latest trip was Richmond, VA to Dallas, TX. By doing the shorter, more frequent charging, i made me trip in about the same amount of time as when I would take a gas car. For me, it’s fun. Having said this, the real advantage of an EV is for people who can charge at home and use it for commuting. The electric trucks are ideal for contractors who drive short distances but carry a lot of equipment. You can’t yet use one to pull your 5th wheel across the country. For practicality, give me an EV. For fun, I’ll take a 3 pedal gas car.
Instead of burning fossil in an electric car, they want us to burn it in a big plant somewhere. Since we don’t have the infrastructure if everyone bought an electric they couldn’t charge it. Also you might need to install a larger electric panel in your house depending on your usage.
Scotty, great write up and many good responses. A few things have changed. Dollar for dollar, most EVs will out accelerate ICE cars. Last year, my buddy took his “tuner” AWD drag car to a meet on a fresh concrete drag strip. Guess what won? A Tesla. Yes, it beat many 1000 HP ICE cars. Why? Because traction control on an EV has evolved beyond any ICE car. Personally it will be a long time before I own an EV, even though I was researching conversions 20 years ago. Come to think of it 40 years ago, I was the student SAE representative when GM donated their “Volkswagen Rabbit” EV test vehicle to our university. The financial equation for an EV makes sense for someone who buys a new car every five years. That is not me, I buy them around 100k miles and keep them for another 200k miles, and do all of the work on them. The only EV that would tempt me is the Aptera which I hope will be on the market soon.
Not a fan of EVs living in northern Alberta where temperatures can hit minus 40C occasionally and frequently stay in the minus 20-30 range for days at a time. We did buy a new to us 2019 Hybrid RAV4 which gets around 40mpg driven gently (not exceeding the limit by more than 5 km/h). Years ago one of my sisters had a Datsun 1000 that got 40mpg and was a lot cheaper, but with so many overweight over optioned cars out there, 40mpg is not as common as it might be.
I agree with all you’ve said when it comes down to buy or not to buy an EV. You either like ’em or you don’t.
I did see a YouTube video several years ago where the Britts actually ran a car like this one using a solar panel to extend it’s range. This was done in 1960 when solar panels first
appeared to power US satellites and
Another stuff they were shooting into
space back then. And while they were crude in the beginning, the panels the Britts had did increase the
car’s range by 50-100 miles and no one took their findings seriously. These folks got at least 75 miles extra from those solar panels they got
from us back then. Me, I didn’t start
Thinking about EVs until hurricane
Charlie roared through Polk County
Florida 20 years ago. After the storm,
folks waited in line 4 hours or more to
get gas and a hot meal. And.most of
the foreign run gas stations were charging $8-$15 a gallon for what gas
there was and it was there that I knew
there had to be some other kind of
power source other than gas. People
thought I was nuts when I’d talk to them about it. But my how times have changed. I believe now that it’s
only a matter of time (we may not
live to see it) before they lick all the
problems sorted out and one day, EVs
will be as common on our roads as
gas powered cars are now and always will be. As I said earlier, I would love to build a replica of this car using modern battery packs and
charge controllers. I would also use
4-wheel independent suspension,
electric brakes with the re gen feature, and electric steering. I’d also
change the cabin seating so that those smaller seats would be at the rear of the cabin instead of in front of
the driver. Compared to a modern EV,
this car has real class.
Great write-up Scotty.
I see no mention of a charging panel. Electrics of that vintage came with a large panel mounted in the garage that plugged into the vehicle. Without that, the car would be more than difficult to charge.
Not really. The large panels were due to the technology of the day. A modern charger would be easy to carry in the car. These old electric cars were low voltage, like today’s golf carts. A golf cart charger of the right voltage would change this car just fine.
Hot topic, great responses, and one thing is clear,,inconclusive. Nobody has mentioned a switch to mass transit. My daughter goes all over the world, and unlike America, the car is just not a primary source of transportation. Cities are closely knit, and I think America has begun a similar transition, back to the cities, and the biggest reason, is the commutes. Obviously, that won’t happen overnight, and we still don’t know about the reliability of these things, “an info board capacitor? Oh, that’s gonna cost you”,,I know of a friend that had a Prius, ton of miles, but something needed replacement and was advised to replace the whole car. I’m not saying a modern ICE car is any less complicated, but we’re putting a lot of credibility in these things, and are actually just as damaging to the environment in building them, not to mention when it comes time to discard them. Heck, I can’t get rid of an old TV for heavens sake. History has shown, there have been plenty of transportation blunders, and I feel the EV will go down in history as one.
America has been “transitioning” back to the cities? Maybe in your neck of the woods. Out here in flyover country? The cities are dying.
I agree that EV is a hot topic. No one likes something shoved down their throats and EV is clearly a case of a bunch of misinformed bureaucrats reacting to a bunch of hysterical activists. The ultimate goal is nowhere near where they SAY we’re going. My wife’s uncle is well experienced on what to expect from EV and he has had people preach to him the exact opposite of what he already KNOWS. But like all other hot topics this one will prevail until something else takes over. I remember Propane back in the 70s. Petrolane stations sprung up everywhere. Now how many of those are left?
Excellent point on public transportation in the US. We never should have gotten away from the old streetcars in cities and towns in my opinion. Our current way of getting around is unsustainable, one only has to look at freeways at rush hour or the quality of the air to see that we need to change things in a big way. We actually had good public transportation back in the day with electric trolleys or streetcars in every city before somebody got the bright idea to start building personal cars, and GM bought up a lot of trolley systems across the country and shut them down. Point being I don’t seen electric cars as a solution either, they are an environmental disaster to build (ie mining lithium) and at this point the power to charge them comes mostly from nuclear or coal fired plants.. and even if you use solar or wind neither of those are recyclable when they get destroyed or wear out. And as you pointed out, electric cars can be very expensive to keep up. Due to the weight of batteries electric cars are also heavier and wear out tires faster, which is another problem to add to what I see is a very long list.
So, a return to the old horse and buggy would be the best solution. You say the evil car companies ripped up the trolley tracks, so that would cost billions of dollars to replace. Personal EV and ICE vehicles are “unsustainable,” because of pollution. And we can’t have that! So, saddle up the Palomino, and dig out great grandpa’s buggy whip. I’ll beep at you, and wave, as I drive by in my F150.
The article says ; ” … This car has an interesting seating configuration, with the driver on the left side of the bench seat in the rear of the compartment, …”
I am a bit confused…
there is a swiveling seat, a short bench and a long bench…where is the steering wheel ?
There are no pictures where we can see the steering wheel…
I am not even sure where the driver sits? on the short bench ?
The picture with the swivel seat and the small bench are actually in the front of the cab facing backwards. If you look down at the floorboard you can see two pedals for the driver but you don’t see his seat because he’s to the left of the big bench seat in the rear of the cab. It’s a weird setup to be sure. And he doesn’t have a steering wheel, it has a stick, which I assume goes side to side.
The passengers sit in front of the driver behind the windshield ?
Strange indeed…I wonder why they made it that way…
Thanks for the clarification I appreciate it !
Where’s the “I’d do an LS swap” guys at to comment? lol
Are you referring to SAFT brand of LS series batteries? That might not be a bad idea to swap a pack of them into this EV…. “Saft’s LS, LSH and LSP cylindrical primary lithium cells ranges, all based on Lithium-Thionyl chloride (Li-SOCl2) chemistry perfectly suit high-energy and high-voltage requirements in a wide range of temperatures.”
Auction update: this one made it to $50,600 and didn’t meet the seller’s reserve.