Even when it was new, the 1965 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce was a fairly rare car. As the decades have passed, this level of rarity has only continued to increase. Today, they rate as one of the most desirable vehicles ever built by the Italian manufacturer, and I have to say a big thank you to Barn Finder gaijinshogun for referring this classic sports car to us. It is located in Kamuela, Hawaii, and has been listed for sale here on eBay. Bidding is now sitting at $23,060, but the reserve hasn’t been met. I suspect that there might be a little way to go before this actually happens.
This is a classic Alfa Romeo, so it is only right to expect there to be some rust issues. There are a few areas that tend to be more prone than others, and while there will be some rust to address on this car, it doesn’t appear as though it is particularly extensive. Before we look at those areas, it is worth noting that the owner does state that the Alfa has received a repaint at some point and that as a part of this process, it has received some bodywork. He doesn’t elaborate on this beyond stating that the work hasn’t been completed to a high standard. One of the areas that will need to be inspected for rust is the area below the windshield. This is one of those prone areas, but from what we can see, it does look to be quite clean. The rockers are another area of concern, and while the one on the driver’s side looks really good, there is some visible on the passenger side. In fact, all of the visible rust is on that side of the car, but none of it appears to be severe. It is present in the joining seam that runs along the length of the rocker, the equivalent seam in the rear quarter panel, and in the very bottom of the passenger side door. There is a small amount in the very rear of the trunk pan, but that really does appear to be about it. The floors appear to be solid, the area below the battery tray is clean, and the Spider gives every indication that it is structurally sound. Given the past history of bodywork it is possible that there might be some rust lurking in unseen spots, but the comprehensive series of photos that the owner supplies are pretty promising. The top is very badly shredded, although the frame is said to be in good condition. The vehicle also wears its original steel wheels, although two of the original hubcaps are missing. All of the glass looks good, but there are a few minor external trim pieces that are missing. Thankfully, none of these pieces are specific to the Veloce, so sourcing replacement components should be possible. At the end of the day, this is a car that would well justify a full nut-and-bolt restoration, because it could pay dividends financially at the end of the process.
Powering the Spider Veloce is a 1,570cc DOHC 4-cylinder engine. The basic engine architecture is shared between the base Spider and the Veloce, but the latter gets a significant performance boost. Specific to the Veloce is a more aggressive camshaft, forged and balanced conrods, higher compression pistons, dual side-draft Weber carburetors, and tubular exhaust headers in place of the standard steel exhaust manifold. The result of all of this work was a 25% boost in engine power, with the little twin-cam pumping out 127hp. This power found its way to the rear wheels via a 5-speed ZF manual transmission. The Alfa is a numbers-matching car according to information available through Alfa Romeo’s Centro Documentazione in Italy, but from there, the news does take a bit of a nose-dive. The engine is locked, and it actually isn’t clear when it last turned freely. The owner states that he has made no attempt to free it, which is probably no bad thing. Given the potential value of the Alfa, I would really be wanting a specialist to assess the engine. If it winds up being damaged in a ham-fisted attempt to free it, that will have an impact on the car’s ultimate value.
The Alfa’s interior is original, and it is in surprisingly good condition. The dash cap is looking a bit odd on the passenger side, so I’m not sure whether this could be fixed, or if a replacement would be required. The finish is peeling from the steering column, but this is one of those issues that should be easy to address. The upholstery looks to be quite good, with no major signs of wear or tear. The carpet is well beyond help, and that is destined for the nearest skip. Apart from replacing the carpet, I suspect that the interior would look very nice if someone took the time and effort to clean and detail it properly.
The relative rarity of the Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce is beyond question. The company’s own records verify that while there was something in the order of 9,025 examples of the standard Spider produced in the 1964/65 production run, a mere 1,091 examples of the Spider Veloce rolled off the Alfa Romeo line. Of these, various sources show that only around 220 still exist today. A combination of rarity and desirability has had a significant impact on potential value. A pristine survivor or a spotlessly restored example can quite easily command values of $120,000, while $135,000 or more is not out of the question. It is those figures that explain why I think that there might be a little way to go yet before the reserve on this one is met, and why I believe that this is a car that well and truly justifies being the subject of a meticulous nut-and-bolt restoration.
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My Father had an identical car to this one. He drove it year round in NH and would always tell me how bad the heater was and that it would blow snow from outside into the passenger compartment. Not surprisingly, it got pretty rusty and he parked it in his barn in about 1980 with the hope of restoring it someday, but that never happened. He finally pulled it out in 2014 and sold it, I believe he got around 14,000 for it in pretty poor condition, so the market is pretty good for these cars.
Do you know when and where he bought it?
In 1970 I sold an exact car in White River Junction, VT to a guy from NH.
I believe he bought it at what was then Woburn Foreign Motors, now Woburn Toyota, in Woburn Mass. sometimes in the late 60’s.
BTW Spider isn’t the model, but rather the body style. The model is the Giulia.
Not a Veloce with that single carb engine.
Look harder. The motor has the twin side draft carbs.
Not many of these Spiders left that are original and unrestored- especially a Veloce with the twin Webers. This car looks to be in quite good condition but Ebay is probably not the best venue to sell such a rarity. I note a missing radiator but that is not a major concern.
What would be a better venue? Certainly not BAT…
Why not BAT? That site attracts a large number of very knowledgeable Alfa people from all over the world. There are many restorers in Europe on there that may not follow USA Ebay. I’ve seen totally rusted out hulks, far worse than this car, go for tens of thousands of dollars before being shipped to Europe for restoration.
I beg to differ regarding BAT & this car. BAT is focused on the North American market & is great for pristine emerging classics such as a MKIV Supra or a 240Z where the ongoing banter helps educate and create a demand. At the same time there is too much unnecessary commentary including responses from those that do not take the time to understand what is being sold. Ebay, while it has its flaws, is a mature selling medium especially with international buyers.
Totally agree with you on all the unnecessary and sometimes “cutsey” remarks and questions on the BAT auctions (“could you please post a video of the shift from 1st to 2nd gear”?) by uninformed people or folks who know nothing about the marque but feel qualified to comment and criticize. I’m not sure I would want to sell a car on there and have to put up with that- even though I found an Alfa I had been searching for for over ten years and ending up buying it on the site! I guess it’s good for somethings!
My mistake Kevin, there is a second Weber under all that corrosion and rust. I second the advice on not trying to turn over that engine. It’ll need a full tear down and rebuild. There is a lot of rust, but a rare mid 60’s Alfa Veloce is worth a restoration to original condition. Wonderful driving, slightly high strung, pure Alfa driving experience. Hope it finds a real enthusiast to bring it back to life.
The photos show the radiator and it is said it will be included with the car. The best part is the car is all there so you don’t have to go find a part, which is a good place to start a restoration. The engine has frozen rings, so you could try the acetone/auto trans fluid approach to free them up. As stated these are rare cars, the lowest documented cars of all the Veloce/SS. The car is a great daily driver with the engine wanting to run at 4000 rpm + as you shift gears. The Veloce cams are set to breath at that rpm.
I bought one just like this in Germany in 1969 for $1500, and (unhappily) traded it in on a new SAAB 99 in 1971. It was a great car, tho when I got it, the rear main seal leaked like a sieve and I blew 2 head gaskets in it; also, lost rear axle location (fortunately at low speed),which was an adventure, to say the least. After all was repaired (and a new top installed), it was great. A growing family necessitated the trade-in in California (SAAB-Scandia dealer in Whittier, CA) for the new 99. This one is most definitely a Giulia Spider (pronounced “Speeder” — means “convertible”) Veloce. Give-aways are the two Webers and the deeper finned aluminum sump. This one looks fairly solid and will be worth the time and trouble to restore.
The hood scoop and front disc brakes, a nice addition to the model when produced. I restored a 1965 Normale in the 1980’s, eventually sold at Fantasy Junction in 2010, at a price significantly more than the $500 I paid for a running car in 1978. Simple architecture, and mechanics resulting in a less protracted process in completing it. Parts availability is still good. Well deserving of a comprehensive restoration.
I like this car, and I own its twin though mine is a 64, they are pretty much side identical. My biggest problem is that it is in Hawaii and I don’t know whay it takes or the cost to ship it to the mainland. Minor issue.
Soak the block and you should be able to punch the liners out. If not replacement blocks are available. True NOS alfa blocks do not have numbers stamped on them and are available here and there. I purchased one a couple of years ago for around 700 dollars and it is perfect. Because of the availability of blank blocks I don’t put a lot of value on numbers matching.
I think the price will be around 25 to 30k for this one. Pristine ones will set you back 125k but you can find nice ones for 80k. I think it would take 50k to make this a nice one and 100k to make it pristine.
You won’t know the true story until you take it all the way down to find out just how extensive it will be. The photos are good to give you an idea but there will be surprises like behind the battery tray, like where mine went through the metal. You might be good to do a partial skin on the trunk lid and doors around the bottoms. If you have a 1600 Veloce I would like to have you contact me.
Sure you can find me at http://www.BIFmotors.com.
I have both a 750 and 101 Veloce, but neither one is for sale and will not be until I die which G-d willing will not be for another 30 to 40 years.
I do have a lot of parts and pieces that I will sale.
Oh also I am on the 750-101 groups.io site, though I don’t check it every day
Hawaii? Uh, no…I lived in Honolulu many years and one thing you should not consider is an older, classic car that has lived there more than a couple of years, if that long.
Salt in the air, on everything, mix in some rain to wash it into the car seams and every nook and cranny = rust, rust, rust.
Fixtures and towel bars in the house will pit and rust. Leave a metal tool outside overnight? Rust in the morning.
Just a thing when you live on an island surrounded by ocean. Great for the soul but bad for anything metal and for classic cars.
When I was restoring a TR4, I bought a parts car from a friend and his TR4 had lived in Hawaii evidenced by the DOD sticker still on the bumper. I was able to use both bumpers and a boot lid as-is with no pitting or rust. I don’t know where the Hawaii car lived or for how long but was pleasantly surprised at the overall condition.
The seller says he lives in a dry part of the Big Island, so maybe it’s okay.
In general, Honolulu is not a good environment for vintage cars. However, the Big Island (where this car is located) can be a perfect place as there are desert areas away from ocean and with the perfect humidity to keep things from drying out.