The F-85 was Oldsmobile’s first compact car, launched in 1961 on the new “Y” unibody platform it shared with the Pontiac Tempest and Buick Special. It differed from its cousins in that it had a 215 cubic inch aluminum block V8 as standard equipment throughout its three-year run. This ’61 wagon has been largely restored and looks like a cool cruiser that only needs a bit of further tinkering. Located in Franklin Lakes, New Jersey, this interesting artifact from the “Atomic Age” is available here on eBay. The starting bid is $7,650 (no takers yet) but you can pass-go and take it home for $9,995.
The seller refers to this interesting wagon as a Jetfire, but I believe that moniker was reserved for the 1962-63 coupe version of the car that came with a turbocharged version of the “Rockette” V8 (the seller’s wagon appears to have no such apparatus). It does come with the 3-speed “Roto Hydramatic” transmission that was also new in ‘61. These cars also had a double-wishbone front suspension plus a 4-link live axle in the back, making it a different set-up than the company’s full-size cars. I don’t know if that has anything to do with how high the seller’s wagon seems to sit off the ground (almost like it has 4-wheel drive).
When the seller bought this wagon a couple of years ago, it had not been running since 1992 and needed both mechanical and cosmetic work. He/she set out to take care of those needs and lots of new parts were acquired. The work that was done includes – but is not limited to – rebuilding the generator, carburetor, fuel tank, transmission, drive shaft, and more. The car was given a new coat of paint and turned into a two-tone vehicle (not originally). Most of the interior was redone and oddly the seat bottom on the front doesn’t match that of the back.
The car also comes with new wheels and tires and a spare set can be had for an additional charge. The luggage rack is period correct but not original to the Oldsmobile. The unfinished business includes giving the old girl a tune-up, replacing some bulbs, and fixing the horn and radio (all of this sounds like easy stuff). The seller has too many projects and too little space, so the F-85 has to go. This would be a cool wagon to have in the hands of any Olds fan and they are seldom seen these days.
Don’t know what is going on with the suspension, it’s crazy lifted. New springs wouldn’t explain that lift, spacers, but why? Get the vintage roof rack but this car doesn’t wear it well. On the positive side it’s affordable and might be a good little wagon with some TLC.
Building a Overlander? Looks pretty stupid, imo.
The reason this cars suspension is so high is because I think he was going to put a LS in it!
Looks like it would be a terrible ride that high, also that’s a very tall air cleaner
I recently read a vintage Popular Mechanics issue covering this car, apparently the air cleaner covers the entire carb in an effort to control temperature.
the air cleaner is correct for the car, I had a few of these in the day, I wouldn’t mind it but no room for more.
Auction listing calls it a “Jetfire” and of course that’s just silly. The Jetfire name was used on the turbocharged sedans a little later, and a wagon version was never made.There is at least one custom made, however. It sold at Mecum a little while ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYp-sa6gbHk
This “might” have been a “Starfire”, but I think just F-85 wagon is likely correct.
There were several Jetfire wagons made… can see them on youtube…
They used to use those 215’s in airplanes too and then I think British overland bought the rights from GM to put them in Range Rovers .Neat car but looks terrible jacked up like that imo. I wonder if someone replaced the suspension bushings and tightened them on a lift and not on the ground with vehicle weight on them after being jounced.glwts.
Rover bought the rights, and used them in Land Rovers, Triumph used a version in the Stag and the TR8. The Base displacement of 215 cubic inches works out to 3.52L, but Rover had 4.0L (225 cubic-inch) versions available in the Stag at one point, IIRC. The Brits used Stromburg dual-downdraft carburetors on them (an SU clone), but GM used a good ole’ Rochester on them. Edelbrock makes a new intake manifold for them that replaces either the two-barrel or the dual downdraft carbs with a single four-barrel fuel mixer, for those so inclined. Now if GM had just stuck with it long enough to come out with a DOHC 32-valve version…Oh well.
I LOVE IT! Without the roof rack, of course. A nice set of Cragar’s and lowered to specs and voila, a great old cruiser. I love pre-1970 wagons and Cragar’s, which I couldn’t afford as a teenager on my ’65 Olds Cutlass F85 2 door hardtop w/330 & 2 speed automatic.
So, every day I get the BF email. Sometimes I click on the ones that are interesting. But today, I looked at the ’70 Cutlass SX convertible, for some odd reason because I don’t care for drop tops. Anyway, I pick out the top 4 or 5 vehicles I’d love to own and forward the email to six friends. 3 never respond but 3 do with their picks. We may only agree on one car, though.
Last year, I asked them to compile a list of every running/driving car/vehicle they’ve ever owned. We’re all in our 60’s so the lists ought to be long. So far, only one guy sent a short list. I um, have failed. My memory isn’t working as it should. I’ve owned lots of cars, pickups, vans and hundreds of cycles. I’ll do my (low budget) list to the best of my recollection some day when I’m not so busy. It’d be interesting to know what you guys have in your lists.
My count is 87 and holding. At 76 the 2015 Q5 Audi may be my last car. Race to see who or what goes first, me or the car.
That roof rack looks like an aftermarket item, or maybe a dealer-installed accessory, with the hooks over the drip rails and straps holding it in place, Most factory roof racks of this era were bolted in place, directly into the roof structure. This looks like it could have come from a VW Beetle!
I had a ’63 Buick Skylark with the 215 V8, but my auto. trans was 2 speed. This one is a 3 speed auto. Surprised that different GM divisions used so many different transmissions and rarely shared motors. I guess this was before the been counters ran the company.
My son tricked me into listing the cars and trucks that I have owned and then had a T-shirt made for my birthday with them listed by year, all 55 of them. that was about 3 or 4 cars ago.
That car has 4 lug wheels, hard to find Cragars for it.
Thirteen inch too. Hard to find rubber these days. My dad had one of these (4door sedan) in the mid-sixties and found out the hard way that the left side had left-handed lug bolts ala some Chrysler products of the era. He was a strong dude and snapped that sucker right off! He also discovered that the 100 MPH speedo in the 2BBL versions wasn’t enough for him. The 4BBL Cutlass models had a 120 MPH one.
4-lug 13’s were standard,
4-lug 14’s were optional (std on Jetfire),
4-lug 15’s were also optional.
14″ Cragar Chrome reverse are readily available
Cragar and others made custom 4-spoke rims, the F85 bolt pattern interchanges with Corvair, Vega and some Mopar.
Do these still use left-hand lug nuts on the left side of the car, like my Mom’s 1961 Buick Special?
Yes they do.
Horrible stance, way too high.
On another note,
I nominate it for ugliest breather assembly & ugliest dash. (eesh)
The body however has great lines and style.
All of the “Y-bodies” shared the same dashboard, only the instrument cluster varied between models. None of them were padded, of course, so like Jay Leno’s Roadmaster, after an accident, you just hosed the dashboard off, and sold it to the next guy, LOL!
My first car was a 1962 Cutlass convertible, dark maroon with a white top. I wish I could afford to track one down again. The 215 was a pretty engine and pretty smooth. The 4-barrel carb was a thing of beauty as well. These first-generation compacts from the General were junior editions of some of the greatest cars ever made – the Electras, the 98s, and the Bonnevilles.
Later on the General completely blew it with the J-cars trying to emulate the Germans. The Cimarron in particular was a disappointment. The early ’60s Tempests, Skylarks, and F-85s all had V8s available, whereas later on GM went with 4 cylinders. Yuck.
There was a 1962 F-85 wagon at Mecum Indy this year that was totally tricked out and modified to emulate the Jetfire turbo cars. This size of wagon is far preferable to a small SUV. But then I’m a curmudgeon who prefers cars to trucks. This one looks goofy with the lifted suspension, but even back in the day the 13″ wheels looked a tad small. On the other hand the Tempest’s 15 inchers were a tad too big.
Distinctive styling, good build quality, and that unmistakable “it” factor – an unbeatable formula for success.
This is the Oldsmobile sister to my Mom’s 1961 Buick Special, also with the two-speed automatic. It’s unclear to me if the automatic transmission in one of these was a BOP Super Turbine 300 or a Buick Dynaflow transmission, but it certainly wasn’t a Chevy Powerglide. I like all of the 1961-63 Y-Bodies, but my favorite is still the Pontiac Tempest, with the rear-mounted transaxle and DeLorean “Rope Drive” driveshaft. That was when GM was willing to try innovative new technology, even though the “Bean Counters” (accountants) often pulled the plug before the Engineers had time to fully debug the new technology. Then the combination of Ralph Nader and the Government scared GM away from new technology and innovation for at least twenty (20) years, and left GM ill-prepared to fight the import onslaught that was soon to come.
Actually, the F85 had its own HydraMatic three-speed automatic distinct from the Dual-Path two speed unique to the 1961-63 Buick Specials.
Once again, not sure how they do it, Russ being the biggest on such things, but my brother had this exact car. Fact is, I’m emailing it to him. My brother had a good job, thanks to Uncle Sam schooling, unlike his crabby truck driving younger brother who attended the school of hard knocks,,, and while in school in the 70s,, he had a slew of beaters, this was one of them. I remember it being a really nice car, plenty of power, right size, wagon was handy as heck. Time marched on, and it sat in his barn for a long time. I’d say, 15 years ago, he tried to sell it, nobody wanted it, and had very little rust, but sitting. Finally, a guy bought it just for the motor, and junked the rest.
One thing crystal clear, buyers sure had some great choices back then.
My family had one of those F85 wagons in the mid 60’s. It was silver with red interior just like above. It also had three rows of bench seats that fit 9 , that’s my Dad, brother and sister and friends going for ice cream. Great little car.
I learned to drive in one of these, except ours had a 3 on the tree. It was a fun car to drive.
215 alu, tq tube’n trans axel, wish bone frnt susp, 4 link rear – it just dont get more “Special” (needs Jetfire to finish) but I know the tempest a lill better.
Jetfire is just 1 – 5 lb boost, I think the 1st production ina merican vehicle.
Really different to see when servicing. Fun to shift mental gears, a lill ahead of it’s time, much improved upon today, yet a way setter for the industry. If wages matched prices today we’d see innovation a la 21st century as this wuz then. W/o that dynamic the only we see is government driven (EV). Ck the ideas recently come up with for IC motors when placed in hybrids. That’s innovation. Probably disappear when all are full-on EV.
Thnx Russ~
Olds did not have the transaxle. The trans was the back of the block as normal, with a driveshaft to the solid rear axle.
Only Tempest used the transaxle.
215 alu, tq tube’n trans axel, wish bone frnt susp, 4 link rear – it just dont get more “Special” (needs Jetfire to finish) but I know the tempest a lill better.
Jetfire is just 1 – 5 lb boost, I think the 1st production ina merican vehicle.
Really different to see when servicing. Fun to shift mental gears, a lill ahead of it’s time, much improved upon today, yet a way setter for the industry. If wages matched prices today we’d see innovation a la 21st century as this wuz then. W/o that dynamic the only we see is government driven (EV). Ck the ideas recently come up with for IC motors when placed in hybrids. That’s innovation. Probably disappear when all are full-on EV.
Thnx Russ~
I absolutely love this wagon. The roof rack would be the first thing to go, for me. Fortunately, it appears to be strapped on with rubber suction cups and no drilling. My granddad gave me his ’61 4 door when I was 16. I didn’t appreciate it like I would now.
I’m a big fan of wagons. This one I would definitely have. I would have to lower it back down. Looks as if it was hacked up to accommodate larger wheels. The owner didn’t want to mess with returning it to stock height so left the spacers in.
Jacked up! Didn’t proof read.
This car is so high it wouldn’t pass a drug test.
Touché
My dad bought a 63 F 85 wagon and a 63 F 85 coupe both with 215 2bll, ( coupe for work) both new in 1963. Both 3 speed auto, was 11 then. Remember problems with over heating early on, then a trusted mechanic adjusted coolant to 50/50 and never had a problem after that. My first car was the coup. Was amazingly quick.
Splain me Lucy, why d suspension like that❓
Russ,
Good article except one thing, the aluminum 215 was used in the Buick Skylark also. The Pontiac tempest was the only one of the three cars that had a different engine which was a 4 cylinder. Pontiac just cut the 389 in half to make a 4 cylinder which was a good engine except the vibration inherent to a lot of 4 cylinders was a little more than expected. Mickey Thompson did a lot of work with this engine and even had a 2 cylinder and a 1 cylinder also. I digressed again and I hate it when I do, so back to the 215 engines the Olds had regular slanted valve covers and the Buick had up right valve covers. To add to all of that the Olds had an extra head bolt in the block. The block was designed this way because Olds knew they would be playing with the turbos later. Also the torque tube and rear transaxle was only used on the Pontiac Tempest.
Check it out,
Bill
Ther were a few Tempests sold with the 215 V8. I came across one at a car show in Florida a few years ago, original owner and still had the window sticker showing the 215 V8 on the option list.
I have breakfast every week with a former Pontiac division designer who was there during the development of the Tempest. He remembers an early test of one with the V8 where the test driver tried to quickly join traffic and destroyed the transaxle. It was taken from the Corvair and just couldn’t handle the torque of the V8 in its stock form.
There is also a local gent with his dad’s 62 Cutlass Convertible equipped from the factory with a 4-speed. Again, window sticker showing this as optional equipment. Has had a copy of it laminated to show the nay-sayers.
The 61 F85 that we had, had the “Super” transmission which made a funny “zzzziip” sound when going from reverse to drive. Dad took it in to have it fixed and the response was: “We have no ilea why it does that, but if it ever stops, bring it in because NOW its broken.”
https://www.museumofamericanspeed.com/v8oldsmobile215.html Just like you noted the difference between the Olds 215 & the Buick version ! I had a ’63 Skylark Convertible with that 215 and I thought the one in this Olds Wagon looked different.
All of the Y-bodies had a base version and at least one (1) upscale trim level. The base Buick was the Special, with the upscale Skylark as the upgrade path. A complete list is available in Wikipedia, which I have provided the link to, for reference:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Y_platform
This car was pretty quick back then. We had on the used car lot.
I picked up a ’62 F85 185 HP (4 barrel)convertible this spring from a dealer who collected them but retired and no energy to finish it. California car so no body rust, just surface. Suspension work done, and new top, I had carb done and dropped and cleaned the tank. Needs Paint and drivers seat back wear fixed. Glove box is even autographed by Mario Andretti when he was doing promo work for Firestone. Top pump was out so got a new one but haven’t put in yet. Hurt back (2 discs) so not sure going to finish. Rides and drives great. Anyone interested can drop me a line. In Pa.
They have a transaxle in the rear, hence the high stance. I had one with the 195 cid & factory 4 bbl.
That would have been the Tempest. The F85 and Special had a regular trans up front and a live axle in the rear.
You might want to check that out again.
Bill
They were innovative, but the aluminum block heated up real quick and was prone to head gasket failure. in 63, when this 215 was married to a turbo, the car achieved a sort of holy grail at te time – 1 hp for each cu. in. of displacement. Ultimately, the GM models described here did not come into their own until 1964, with a larger platform, iron v8’s available then – olds had the 330 v8 which eventually became the ubiquitous 350 (an option) and Pontiac came into their own with a 326 married which could include a 6 barell carburator in the first GTO, 1964 Initially, the Olds nameplate in these smaller platform 62 was a big boost for those wanting to embrace an upscale performance image without a big price, because about a decade before, Olds had great success with its ROCKET V8, immortalized by Ike Turner in what some regard as the song that launched rock n roll. Olds ruled the roost in the performance market then, and its reputation lingered until Pontiacs GTO became the heir apparent. Chevrolet was the Johnny come lately, no v8’s in any of their cars until 1955. The different gm cars were each their own anumals back then, but eventually they became homogenized versions of each other, leading to less brand identitiy or allegiance, which undid a paradigm GM had spent 70 years creating
Anyone interested I have a 63 F85 coupe factory 215 breather states ultra high performance with automatic transmission, factory air conditioning, electric power windows, power brakes, column shift with bucket seats. Hasn’t run in several years needs Complete Restoration. First $3,500 AS IS and it is yours. F85 is located in North Carolina—Delivery is available for a fee.
@Ervin – Send it in and we will help you get it sold! https://barnfinds.com/sell/auction/
I don’t think there’s a such thing as a “6-barrel” carburetor – maybe 3 two barrels, but definitely wasn’t available on the 326 cu. in. engine. I don’t think I’m misinterpreting what you’re saying…
The ’64 Pontiac GTO came standard with a 4 barrel but an optimal 3 carb that were 2 barrel. I bought a brand new “64 GTO when I got out of the Navy in January in 64. The 4 barrel was rated at 325 hp and the three 2 barrels at 348hp. In ‘ 65 they changed the heads and manifolds and then was rated at 335 hp for the 4 barrel and 360 for the three 2 barrels. I have heard the Porsche with the 2 three barrels called a 6 barrel. But with my research I can’t find any mention of a 6 barrel carb.
CHECK IT OUT
Bill