I have always been a proponent of not ignoring potentially risky cars due to the risk factor alone, especially if the price is right. This 1977 Ferrari 308GTB has a variety of red flags working against it, but it is a running, driving Ferrari in a rare shade of paint known as Fly Yellow. The Ferrari has a rebuilt title and lots of deferred maintenance, which has been piling up and needs doing. Find the 308 here on eBay where bids are over $30,000 with no reserve.
Now, everyone knows that buying a Ferrari – no matter how cheaply – requires a hefty maintenance budget. The fact that the engine must be removed for belt servicing at the hands of a pricey Italian specialist shop is one of the biggest strikes against owning one of these classic mid-engined sports cars on a budget. The seller notes that parts for repairing the leaking valve cover gaskets, cam seals, and the timing belt are all included, so at least you’re saving a few hundred bucks against a $10,000+ service.
The interior is in similar driver-grade condition, appearing slightly scruffy but certainly livable. The black leather seats aren’t torn but they do show plenty of creases, and the interior plastics look a bit scuffed up in place. These are all minor sins, of course, and are just part for the course with any vintage exotic that hasn’t been previously restored. Seeing the matching paint inside the door jambs with no sign of overspray on the striker is a very good sign.
The seller claims this 308 was formerly a long-time California car, which might explain the rebuilt title. It sure seems like California likes to total older cars and trucks out on a far more frequent basis than other states, which likely has something to do with its aggressive climate change goals. In the meantime, someone is going to walk away with an excellent project, especially in terms of financial upside, given good 308 GTBs reliably sell into the $60K range. Where you think this one will end up?
It’s the insurance company that determines a car is a total loss, not the government. Something significant happened to this car at some point in its past.
Insurance companies base their process (s) on the municipalities,IE: States. iE: governing parties, in which they operate. IE: California State Government. Of which, Cali is the literal rim of the bhole when it comes to “governing”. This is why Californians have and/are in the process of ruining the remainder of the PNW.
The most expensive Ferrari you can buy is the one you get for free.
Words of wisdom right there. These were no bargain when they could be snapped up for 25K. They are no more reliable at twice that.
In my experience, insurance companies operate within state regulations, and some states make a total loss determination easier than others. That’s why it’s particularly important to have insurance tailored to your classic vehicle.
I was in the “picture care” business for 20+ years. We often bought damaged vehicles for film/TV use. The damaged vehicles were usually really cheap, and the history was not concerning to us as they would not be registered/plated for use on public roads. Some cars we actually wanted to keep in damaged condition… If there is supposed to be high-value car involved in a crash on a low budget film , the actual moment of impact is often not clearly shown (because it didn’t happen), and there is a quick edit to aftermath (with the Copart special!). Other cars we would do whatever minimal, short-term repairs were needed to make the ride look good on camera. Some did not even run, especially if they were destined to be shot, blown-up, burned, or otherwise wrecked.
One thing I learned buying damaged vehicles is that the “total loss” and “branding” process is Very subjective, at best. It is also often subject to influence, or maybe corruption. Case in point: I was contacted by a large insurance auction and invited to bid on a crashed late model type 3 E-350 ambulance. We had a fleet of ambulances, and used off-duty real paramedics to operate them on camera as “special-skills extras”.They had no bids, and wanted it gone. It was smashed in the front, but the box was perfect. I threw in a low bid of $1,200, not expecting to win. No one else bid, and it was mine. I planned to remove the body, and place it on another chassis. The diesel engine and transmission were fairly valuable, so I contacted a local body shop/garage that services private ambulances and asked if they wanted to buy the powertrain. When I described the unit to the manager, he stopped me and asked “Was that Unit 908?” .
When I confirmed it was indeed 908, he said “Don’t touch it! It’s not really “totalled”! It was towed here after the crash, and the owner told me he wanted the insurance money, so I gave it a really high estimate. It just looks bad, the frame is OK”. He went on to insist that he could fix it for $1,200 cash (including paint, if I supplied the parts: hood, fenders, grille, rad & condenser. As I always had a few parts ambulances around, the deal was done.
Cam, sounds like a nice, automotive-related business to be in. Hope you enjoyed doing it and made a few $$ along the way.
I know it’s been stated before ….you DO NOT have to pull the engine to do the timing belt service
To clarify, the 308/328 series had a transverse engine allowing for engine-in belt access via the right rear wheel arch. These are among the easiest Ferrari models for a DIY’er to self-maintain.
The engine-out requirement for any maintenance beyond routine oil/filter changes started with the 348 and related Mondial T, which switched to a longitudinal engine layout.
Okay, no engine out needed for the belt service, but how much does it cost to get this belt done? I would not do it by myself, just like I didn’t do it on my Audi S4. The nose still had to come off of the car in order to get to the belt, so it still cost me 1K to get it done by an Audi specialist working out of a pull up door storage unit. I supplied the parts.
while “fiddly” it’s probably easier than that S4 v8.
I just did the radiator on my 2005 mk4 GTI [1.8t] had to pull the frontend on it too, bumper/headlights core support sheww ……in fact it was easier to do the GTI’s timing belt than the radiator job
2 belts and 2 tensioners is a 120 USD. It takes me 3 to 4 hours to change the belts, and I am not flying.
Ferrari’s of this vintage are really pretty easy to work on.
Oh and Audi’s are banned from my garage because they are such a pain to work on.
I’m pretty sure you can do the engine belt service in the car, tho it’s time consuming and “fiddley” . I WANT an Italian project, but more of a GT car.
A gated manual, 90’s, 12cyl, 456 for somewhere in the mid to high $20’s that needs a lot of work would fit my shop well. I can dream anyway… lol
yea the manual 456 is a sweet car, have to get lucky to find one for that I would bet ….good luck though. If I could get a project car, I think I would try for a Testarossa, I just love their slightly over the top styling but they too are way outta my price range, sigh
One of the most reliable Ferrari’s made, and for the average mechanic, not all that difficult to maintain. If however you are going to have all the work done for you then, by all means, have your Gold Card at the ready. Servicing the timing belts is a myth and not all that difficult. Certainly not any more difficult than a plethora of current day V8 automobiles, and no the engine doesn’t have to be removed to justify the $10,000 bill the dealers have dreamed up to justify what they have done for you. The 77’s are carbureted thus simplifying maintenance somewhat and have a less-complicated valve train. The bottom line is that yes, it is somewhat exotic and it is Italian, but it shouldn’t be getting the bad press it gets just for that. I would be more interested in why the reconstructed title. Big plus for the the GTB body and watch for rust as this one may have been a Grey Market car as the body looks to possibly be a euro-spec.
yep, would be nice to see some pics of this one up on a lift, detailing the underside.
Belt service in the car is easy.
There is also the easy way and the time consuming way.
The easy way is make a tool to lock the cams together/keep them from moving, mark the old belts and cam cogs with a magic marker, remove the belts, transfer the marks from old belts to new, and reinstall. The method is listed on a few Ferrari enthusiast sites, with pics
But, you can’t let the cams slip or let the crank turn, otherwise you will end up doing it the time consuming way with dial indicator, degree wheel, etc.
And no, you don’t remove the motor from the car, just remove RR wheel,and pop out the fiberglass inner fender liner to access the motor in that area.
Ok I’ll say it, an LS swap would make this car a real driver. Just keep the lid closed and enjoy the drive for pennies on the dollar of the Fararri mill and even have more torque.
Ok I’ll say it, and I’m not one who would diminish the purity but for the sake of enjoyment and drivability an LS swap would make this car a real driver. Lighter engine weight, lower center of gravity, a torque monster. Just keep the lid closed and enjoy the drive for pennies on the dollar of the Fararri mill.
Looks like you haven’t looked closely at one of these. An LS engine is neither lighter than the existing engine, nor is it a drop-in fit. What transaxle are you going to use? By the time you’ve done all the work properly to pull off that swap well, you will be in a LOT of money and no longer have a well balanced machine.
Not everything needs an LS swap. Just stop. People who want to LS swap everything simply do not understand the unique heart and soul of every engine and how they are give cars their individual character. It’s not ALL about power and availability of cheap parts store water pumps and starters.
I’m not one of those LS in everything people but for this low collectability models a simpler power plant would benefit the dependability, parts availability and driveabiliy. I haven’t seen the weight of the Ferrari engine but I’ve never seen a twin overhead cam engine that weighed less than a in-block cam engine. The center of gravity is also lower. As far as the drive train goes an adapter plate to mate the trans and engine together is the hardest part sizing the pilot shaft clutch etc is a matter of machining. If like a Subaru for example the two are incompatible an F40 6 speed could be considered. Truly a lot of work but getting stuck in a city 500 miles from home looking for a Farrari dealer would make it all worth while.
As the previous commenter already pointed out, you seemingly haven’t looked very closely. Your “adapter plate” to use the stock transaxle is well into five figures worth of bespoke engineering and casting/machining. Finding another transaxle to fit the longer (wider) LS engine and still fit in an engine bay never meant for an end-on gearbox is a physical impossibility.
But that’s not even the silliest part of these suggestions. This may be a hand-built Italian car from the ‘70s, but such cars tend to break down from electrical failures—never the actual engine main mechanical unit. So if you do spend the tens of thousands of dollars required to engineer an “adapter plate” (i.e. new oil pan, transaxle case, drop gear set, etc.), you’re left with a hand built Italian car from the ‘70s that’s just as likely to break down as it was before, but now you can get a water pump at AutoZone when a bad ground or corroded fuse box leaves you stranded in the middle of nowhere.
Personally, I’d rather have a car that simply doesn’t break down, so I don’t have to worry about what’s in stock in a rural AutoZone, so I spend my time/money on the areas of my vintage cars that are most likely to let me down, and leave bulletproof things like the F105 main mechanical unit well enough alone. But maybe I’m nuts?
low collectability??? I hardly think any 308 would be considered that.
except maybe the early Mondial 8’s, but even those deserve better.
and what F40? if you mean the Ferrari F40 then that is a longitudinal setup, not the same as the 308 series transversal setup.
Gettrag builds the F40 6 speed which is a sidewinder. Another more expensive option is a deuch sequential shift. As for the adapter plate I’ve had a billet plate made before and it was not all that expensive. Ok it wasn’t cheap but $3500 was worth the effort for me.
You still haven’t looked under the hood of a mid-engine Ferrari, have you?
If you spent $3500 for an adapter plate for a conventional end-on gearbox application, budget $70k here.
I’m a Californian and the only reason I can think of that insurance companies are so quick to total bikes (I’ve never had a meaningful car accident) is the potential future liability if the repairs are substandard or (as is typical) the owner of the repaired vehicle is just looking for potential litigation to improve his bank balance without working for it. It’s not unusual for $10K bike to be totaled and sold back to the owner for $1500 as salvage and the bike to be back on the road for a few hundred in hard parts and a little garage time. Salvage title can mean anything from a scratch on a major component to real structural damage.
I bought a car with a bad rep for repair costs for $20K. Within 2 weeks, I hit a fawn on a state highway in a relatively dense urban area. Minor damage for me, major for the deer. Insurance company estimated $2K for repair, body shop dug in and found parts could take months to procure. Set their estimate at $12K+ and didn’t want to have a “project” on the floor. Long story short, I negotiated $16K as a total loss, bought it back for $1500, and slowly procured parts. $4K later I’m on the road again with a rebuilt title and $10K in repair reserves for the vehicle. Many variables involved.
This Ferrari may have a salvage title for no other reason than a repair shop didn’t want the hassle. The delta in value between clean title car and salvage title car has definitely been captured along the way by someone though.
Located in: Lisle, Illinois
The wheels are mighty dirty, only 3 bids and 3 bidders now.
No sign of overspray on the door striker? Take a look at the door lock mechanism, they didn’t bother removing it when they repainted this car. Even with a heavy coat of paint, rust blisters can be seen in the photos. You would need to check this one with a paint meter on a hoist before you Bid.
Might be a good deal for an ace Ferrari mechanic.
No a belt service is not an engine-out operation.
Most of us poor people whom could not afford such a beast will tell you that they are always better in resale red. Period.
Years ago, Ferrari Service was usually belts and clutch together. The clutches have a short life span.
I looked at a ’77 model in the same yellow at a dealership in Lake Forest, IL, in June of ’78 … the list price was $30,300 … I was driving a ’77 Corvette …. the salesman said it was the last ’77 model they had and I could have it for $27,000 … “we” bought a ’78 Mark V Givenchy instead … seeing as I got the Lincoln in the divorce settlement (it was still financed) I should have pushed harder for the 308 …
No one has made a comment about the rust bubbles in the paint. Seller shows two close up images with rust bubbles.
US $34,100.00
12 bids
Ended 11/25, 07:08 PM