If this style of car looks familiar to you, you’ve been paying attention in the vintage-automobile scene. That’s correct, it is indeed a Citroën DS platform station wagon (or Estate, or Shooting Brake, whatever you call it in your locality) This particular one is an example of the ID lower-model, has 80,000 original miles, and is for sale here on eBay with a BIN of $4500, in Helendale, CA
Developed over 18 years, the first of this revolutionary design rolled off the line in 1955, and continued worldwide until 1974. Just over 1.4 million examples were produced, most of which were sold in non-U.S. markets.
They employed an unheard-of hydro-pneumatic suspension system, such that variable-pressure fluid raised and lowered the ride height. These were also the first mass-produced cars to offer disc brakes, and could be had with a 2.1- or 2.3-liter 4-cylinder and four choices of transmission. This particular car reportedly has the 2.1 and 4-speed manual gearbox.
For what it’s worth: The overall design came in third in the 1999 Car of the Century poll recognizing the world’s most influential auto designs and was named the most beautiful car of all time by Classic & Sports Car magazine. Jay Leno featured a maroon sedan version on his YouTube channel a few years back, and if those positive views on these cars don’t convince you that they’re fascinating, we don’t know what will.
To summarize the seller’s lengthy and detailed description: This particular one has seen better days, having loafed around for several years, and will need quite a bit of TLC to get up and cruising again. Assuming that parts are available, as the seller reassures us to be true, would you want one?
I’m amazed how the hell this got to the US first hand and also it has survived. While I remember spotting DS sedans (nicknamed Padde in Scandinavia, meaning Toad)now and then as a kid,I can only recall seeing a wagon ONCE.
Truly fascinating in its own right, but it also illustrates why I keep French cars at an arms length; ’cause everything is DIFFERENT! While its technically sophisticated(read:complex)for its day,an amateur mechanic like me will need rearrange everything how a car is worked on.
They are ugly in a cool way, this one is worth saving as the longroof version is rare, even in Europe. Great period vomit green color!
I noticed the steering wheel is partially rotated, a good thing.
With the steering wheel set to drive straight, it looks like a tongue sticking out of the steering column and its about to puke on you lap. Couple this with the “vomit green color!”, it would be nauseating to drive. Yech!!!
Looking past the above, these wagons can haul an immense bunch of crap or can haul a 26′ Airstream, the latter of which my uncle did all over North America.
His was red with a white top, but still had the puke in the lap steering wheel. He also used it to attend swap meets, and I recall him hauling a calf or 2 in it as well.
One spoke ‘puking tongue’ steering wheels seemed almost like a Citroën trademark well into the 90s for some reason – I believe the idea was to ensure gauge visibility at most angles.
A friend of mine owned a couple DS sedans years back.He has zip mechanical skills,fortunately he’s into real estate so he had the means to have them worked on by professional vintage Citroën mechanics.He finally found the DS ‘too mainstream'(!), so he aquired an SM instead to lessen chances to stumble upon another at every car show
The 2CV single-spoke should be fitted to somewhere around 7.30 o’clock (if that makes sense!).
Padda, not Padde. Otherwise correct…
Wagons aren’t so rare – I’ve got 3 in San Jose. But they’ll haul a helluva lot of stuff, what with a laydown tailgate & hatch. I’ve had 1100 lbs of lumber in my ’61 break in Chicago in the late ’60s – no sweat at all. All I needed to do to stiffen the suspension for this heavy load was hike the driving height up one notch on the control lever near driver’s left foot. That reduced roll in corners substantially. Never did bottom over any bumps either. These are amazing workhorses. Been driving them for 56 yrs & still is nothing like them in comfort, utility and ability to go places only Jeeps are allowed. With variable ground clearance and FWD, who needs 4WD?
How available are parts in the USA?
The “vomit” green was called Vert Muscinee, and I believe the only year the colour was offered. One of my favorite 70’s Citroen colours!
“Wagons not so rare”? I completely disagree with you, Mr. Nelson. These wagons are very rare–this is only the second one I have seen in more than 50 years and I attend a lot of car shows and swap meets, and read a lot of antique car magazines. The only other one I saw was in New Hampshire in the mid-1970s. One of my college professors drove one.
Maybe it’s not rare at your house, if you’ve got three of them, but other people do read this and I’ll bet they will agree with me. You don’t see them on used car lots; you don’t see them on the road; you don’t see them at antique car shows; I rest my case.
In this condition, rare for sure Pete! As a good owner of Citroens (including an early wagon) I know where many rusty, forgotten citroens are hiding lest I ever need parts. I know of at least 6 wagons, none of which will ever see the road again. But one such as this that, though a big project, is easily restorable is a rarity. I sure hope it goes to someone that has this in mind (and keeps the original and beautiful paint colour!)
The steering system is an integral part of the hydraulic system and is self-centering which is as mentioned the “tongue” position at 7:30 and unless retrained when switched off should always return to this position – gr8 cars – to properly experience the suspension drive at high speeds on rough secondary roads – you will be amazed by the ‘magic carpet’ ride & handling.
Memorable in scenes from the TV series, “The Saint”! Funny cars that made us wonder about the merits of these vehicles?
I owned a ‘68 DS for many years. Drove throughout Western Europe and the US. Very reliable and not hard to service with qualified help. It’s like that with most cars. To keep them on the road you need only a qualified source for service and parts. My current 2003 SAAB 9-5 wagon is no exception.
Do you guys in US realise how cheap this ?The DS wagon is a uniquely desirable and practical vehicle.
A really good rebuild on this and you have a $50000 plus car in EU. Parts are cheap and available and the DS is not nearly as difficult to work on (or as unreliable when done) as many will have you believe.
Keen cyclists should be especially interested, as these were the most iconic Tour de France support vehicles ever.
I don’t care how aerodynamic it is, it may ride like you’re floating on a cloud, I still wouldn’t be caught dead in one. Few cars I would ever say that about.
You may be caught dead in one someday, the French produced hearse versions of these.
True enough Kevin re the ambulance versions, and the breaks made fabulous camera platforms for filming the Tour de France racers and anything else on the move, due to the smoothness of the suspension. At least the ride to the mortuary wouldn’t jostle the corpse like a Cadillac.
I worked as a mechanic in the early 70’s at Ed St Germaine in Boston. We sold Citroën, Datsun and IH small trucks. The Citroën’s ere a marvel. When crashed the passenger compartment ended up atop the wreck. We had to give lessons on driving them before you could leave with your purchase. The SM had just come out, along with the 5 speed dealer conversion for 240Z and 510. Great times. There were wagons around. The variable ride height killed the importation; the French refused to make their cars less safe to meet US safety requirements.
Not true. More like Citroën wouldn’t bow down to American insurance companies and their 5 MPH bumpers. They were built with crumple zones. Made to be safer. Not to only cost so much in a fender bender.
Mitch, Citroen gave up on the US market in ’72 because to meet the DOT’s stupid so-called safety rules would have cost them more than the total value of their annual sales, and they couldn’t afford to take the hit.
Yrs later, I read an issue of Automotive Engineering magazine, the best rag on the insides of the auto biz I’ve ever seen. The cover title was “Advanced automotive lighting”. The central article described the lighting of two vehicles – the DS and the SM. They finally got their proper accolades as the best illumination in the world, and the DOT should have been ashamed of their stupidity in not allowing their headlights into the US.
You know what led to all the “modern” aesthetically designed headlights that vary all over the map? The DESIGN GUYS needed a way to liven up their boring carbodies, and after seeing what Citroen did with their beautifully aerodynamic, streamlined lights DROVE the DESIGNERS to lobby the DOT for relaxed rules and going to modern lighting vs the ancient sealed beams.
Now why hasn’t anyone on this chat used his head to ask WHY the steering wheel is designed that way? The French seldom do anything without having a very good reason. So – listen up folks, wake up and THINK: Imagine what happens in a head-on collision when your body slams that steering wheel if seatbelts hadn’t been invented – remember these cars were introduced in ’55, when no cars I can think of had belts, let alone shoulder belts.
Granted, there’s no guarantee that single spoke will be at the planned 7:30 position – i.e. – straight ahead orientation – but it’s only one spoke – not two or three. So – your chest slams into that wheel, if you’re centered on the wheel or not, the RIM bends over, your chest doesn’t get a straight tube punched thru your breastbone and most likely kills you, as that tubular – not solid STEEL RING inside all other wheels ever built – bends over and SLIDES your body away from that single spoke which is a hollow tube with a smooth surface on it, and SPREADS the impact over a much larger area of your body than a CENTRAL SPEAR, as used on every other car in the world. ANY lateral deflection is better than hitting a straight center column.
Further, the center tube, having one very smooth bend with nothing to CATCH and HOLD the impact on your guts, bends ALSO, away from center, to further lessen the force imposed on your guts.
Further still, if you look at the steering setup, the steering column ENDS at the rack, which is BEHIND the radiator, halfway back from the car’s nose, and the entire powertrain, as the transmission is AHEAD of the engine, would have to be pushed thru or under the firewall, to shove that steering column back thru the dash and anywhere closer to the driver – it won’t happen.
And how many cars much newer than the DS have steering shafts that reach from right below the front end, all the way back to the driver’s chest??? And when did other brands first get collapsing “safety” columns? What? the ’70’s?
Now, I’m not finished: If you’ve ever looked under the hood of a DS, you might have noticed that, as the spare tire is near horizontal directly behind the front bumper and ahead of the radiator, you esentially have the VERY FIRST PROTECTIVE AIRBAG put into production – THINK of that. If someone doesn’t think that is BRILLIANT, they’re just not thinking period. And that’s not even noting the 3 foot crush distance from bumper to radiator to absorb the energy of a head-on.
Yeah, I know – you’re saying ENOUGH ALREADY. WRONG. I’ve expressed this not humble opinion often before: The DS has to be the most INNOVATIVE car ever designed – bar none. No one has ever challenged this opinion by naming an example – I’m still waiting – but there’s too little space here for my whole soapbox litany. All many folks do is open their mouths without analyzing what they’re looking at – just kneejerk reactions. Before anyone dumps on this vehicle they should realize it has stood the test of time – it STILL looks like it came from another planet, and that may be right. And it still has outstanding features that aren’t equalled in any other car. Is it perfect? NO. But a better combo than I’ve seen elsewhere.
I’ll never forget the look on the face of a 10 yr old kid on the grubby streets of downtown Wilmington Delaware as I came off I-95 back around 1972 in my ’67 DS. He was on the sidewalk with a buddy and yelled “Looka that SPACESHIP!” Still is, and always will be – and not only for the shape. He wasn’t old enough to have been brainwashed by advertising – he was responding with his brain. If I’d only had an I-phone camera back then……
I have been a fan and owner of Citroen DS for many years. I had 3 back in the day and just bought a rusty ’69 ID to attempt to get back on the road. It had been sitting in a barn since 1983! Anyway, you and I agree..the most innovative car ever. I always considered my ’71 wagon to be the best car on the road. My ’95 SAAB 9000 Aero would be second best :)
Good luck on that car Rick – if you run into anything that poses a question, send me a note at citbuff at GEEmaledotcalm or call two 4 ate V won V nein ate 7 nein. Having been driving these since 1962 I think I’ve seen about every problem and found solutions for most of them and improvements for other issues.
Below is a pic of one I found in the Sierra mntns sitting for about 20 yrs with a stuck engine. Tried blowing it loose hydraulically, but that failed.; Then I bored a large hole in the bell housing, put a 3 ft crowbar on the ring gear, and she came loose. Never eventook the head off, just ran it & its now running fine! doesn’t even burn oil.
Ford began a safety campaign in 1956, offering seat belts and recessed spokes in the steering wheel. Sorry Mr. Nelson, (You didn’t have a relative named Capt. Tony Nelson, did you?) I have no desire to be confused as an alien in ANY spaceship! I’ll stand by my earlier statement, no matter how close minded it may be!
Wondering where your tastes lie, Scottymac? I´ve never met anyone who didn´t get the sense of the DS Safari, even those who found it ugly. It really is “joile-laide” defined! The only thing anyone criticizes about these Citroëns is that they deserve a better motor to compliment the chassis.
Ford and safety pioneering don´t really walk the same road. Pinto springs to mind, obviously.
Citroën designed safety into their cars from 1934 with the Traction Avant. In ´34 Citroën rolled a Traction over a cliff to show how it stood up against the competition. Try that with a 34 Ford. Also all post-Traction Citroëns (and that includes the 2CV) were designed to have outstanding dynamics so you could avoid the accident before passive safety was needed to absorb the shock.
Ford tried to market safety, and the public was unconcerned. No, actually, they were offended when a manufacturer tried to warn them cars could be unsafe, so Ford sold them what they wanted.
Anyone that’s driven in Europe (two years for me, courtesy of USAF) will testify to the crowded conditions in cities, and crazy drivers that think nothing about running you off the road. If you have money to buy a car and gain a driver’s license, that entitles you to the road, and the more expensive the car is, the more rights you have. I honestly believe driving conditions in the States and the courtesy of American drivers (talking years ago, of course) helped foster some of the safety engineering of said cars. The regulating bodies in European countries (TUV in Germany comes to mind) may be part of the reason for the better safety of those cars, I don’t profess to know. Nor will I argue with you about it, but I will say again, I wouldn’t be caught dead in a DS, they’re that ugly, in my opinion.
As to my tastes, the one of the few French cars that intrigue me is the Alpine A110. The old one has a fine pedigree, and the new model appears to be of the same mold. I can’t explain its allure, because, simply, it’s a hodgepodge of curves that shouldn’t work. The 310 and 610 have nothing for me. Matra built some interesting cars, and the Venturi sports car was certainly attractive. Particularly since the advent of hot hatches, the French have built some attractive cars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wTjfcAgCxw
I agree 100% Ken and hope at least some of it is absorbed – & I further agree there are so many other system design features(suspension, brakes, turning headlights, seat geometry etc) that all add towards creating as close as we (car culture) have come to a perfect conveyance means – personally as a driver I find the feel a tad of an all hydraulic Citroen DS or SM too vague as the suspension the driver (for my taste) is a tad too isolated.
FYI; DS in french would be Deiesse = female god.
And ID means idea…..
For whatever U will make for a Name / substitute /
The French were masters in naming their products.
whatever part needed, it will be found on interned, as long as as it works.
Well worth the restore and difficult to find in this condition. These wagons were rust prone especially around the rear window areas and tail gate. They suffered from poor primer preparation. The low revving engines were bullet proof. The turning headlights relied in plastic connectors that were prone to disintegrate over time. Be sure to use the factory recommended suspension fluid. This car was way ahead of it’s time in every respect and influences car design to this day.
Wished I had room for it. This is a awesome car. IMHO, if I had it I would become a hiway hobo! I need to escape these darn taxes, they are killing me this year.
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder they tell us, but Mom Nature goes by the rules of physics & seems to prefer aerodynamic designs for birds, fish & anything else that has to pass thru a fluid, whether air or water. In 1967 while at grad school at NWestern, I came across a wind tunnel study of car designs of the era. Interestingly, the Citroen DS21 had a lower drag coefficient than a Porsche 911 – how’s that for natural beauty Scottymac, versus the German icon?
The wagon isn’t as good as the sedan, but the DS is one of the very few cars with a full length bellypan on both sedans & wagons, including a hidden pocket under the front seats for the crosswise muffler, and especially an upswept rear trunk floor creating a coanda airflow effect. If you look it up, the coanda effect of fluid flow under the rear floorpan creates a low pressure region which sucks the airflow under the car into the partial vacuum created by the car’s rear end and up to blend it with airflow over the roof and down to ground minimizing the vacuum effect and rear end drag. There is no other car ever in production that has a bottom as smooth aerodynamically as the DS.
Remember the 1977 Brabham BT46B that won the 1978 swedish Grand Prix with the rear end fan which sucked the car down to maximize downforce and was immediately banned from racing? And Jim Hall designed upswept rear underpans for some of his racecars to take advantage of the coanda effect when mechanical fans were banned. Funny how the French took full advantage of a simple thing like an inverted airfoil to reduce the parasitic drag of a production car to improve fuel economy, while everyone else cluttered up their bottoms.
If you’re saying the DS looks like a fish, I would probably agree. Few beautiful fish come to mind. Even those with underpans. I refer you back to your first sentence, “Beauty i i t e o t b.” I’ve always maintained the 911 is one of the ugliest cars on the planet, also, so you won’t sway me with that argument. The most aerodynamic article is a teardrop(?), let’s design all our cars to look like that!?!?
https://previews.123rf.com/images/fouroaks/fouroaks1712/fouroaks171200049/92122750-a-huge-goliath-grouper-fish-in-the-clear-ocean-water.jpg
Hey scottymac, I agree with you on the teardrop as near perfect aerodynamically, but evidently you haven’t seen a plan view of the D – check it out – near perfect teardrop but without the very long, impractical tail end of a waterdrop.
Never a car have a so great succes of the Citroen DS.By the first apparition on the Salon de L’Automobile de Paris the 07-10-1955 the selling 750cars in 45minutes and after one day, 12000cars. On the end of the exposition, 80000cars are selling. Only Citroen did it!
Then, bailed out by Peugeot, and diluted.
Yes Ghislain, that has to be a world’s record of orders for a first model introduction – it may mean they’d oversold about 2 yrs or more production!
And in the 1999 “Car of the Century” contest held for voters around the world, the DS garnered 3rd place in the top 5 most significant vehicles put into production in the first 100 yrs of the auto business. No. 1 was the Model T Ford re its history, 2nd = the original Mini, for its incredible packaging efficiency, and 3rd the 1955 Citroen DS19 for its overall total technical innovation and design.
Feb 9, 2009, a panel of 20 of the world’s most renowned car designers voted the DS “The Most Beautiful Car Design”, ahead of the Jaguar XK120. Read their opinions at the site below:
https://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/12/car-designers-name-citroen-ds-most-beautiful-car-ever/
Opinions may vary, but these 20 experts got it right, for all the right reasons.
Funny, then, that of the four designers quoted, not one uses the word “beautiful”. Instead you find three of them describing it as: “outside the box”; “extreme progress”; “complete folly, madness”. Perhaps I’m not reading the article correctly, but it would seem to me the DS was a default winner, because the designers couldn’t reach a consensus which Ferrari model really should be declared the most beautiful.
Not sure how to compare exposition sales, Ghislane, but it took the DS 20 years to sell 1 1/2 million copies; the mundane, pedestrian Ford Mustang sold that many in four years.
For the DS fans, it is the cover car (1973 DS23 2.3 liter) and featured in a restoration article in the February issue of English magazine CLASSICS.
When I was 18, I drive a Citroen DS 21. It was for me a super car.
I got my first look at a DS when I was probably about 9 or 10, riding my bike around the blocks (all two of ’em, going north/south!) at our end of town.There was a large, very handsome two-story brick home mostly hidden behind hedges that must have been 10-12 ft. tall, and when I rode along the side side of the house there was a car unlike anything I had ever seen. I found out later that it was a DS (in very conservative central Pennsylvania in the 1960s) and it was owned by a husband and wife who were both professors at the college in town. In the next couple of years I ended up doing yard work for them and found out they had a second DS stored in the garage. Unfortunately I never got a ride in either DS, and have never had a chance since then.
Girls, Boys,
Let me express, my humble point of view.
The DS is like our eifel tower, like our culture, like our values, so typical french.
Is like Édith Piaf, you like it or not.
She is a godess on wheels.
Open your eyes your hearts, consider it like a piece of art, drive it on a Nationale, a road lined with Plane trees, in Provence.
Later you stop in the shade and you look at the godess, glimmering under the sun…
And you will feel like god in France
Agreed Eric – nothing feels as comfortable as having one’s posterior comforted by the most luxurious seats – front or rear – in a DS, where 10 inches of well-engineered foam cushion the derriere, and one’s body position is perfect for good posture with a chair-like height instead of falling into a hole, your feet are resting on 2 inches of foam under the carpet, and the ergonomics are excellent – clear vision all around, no center console stealing body room, and the first decent flowthru ventilation system on a production car. The well-padded armrests and frameless side glass add to the spaciousness of the car.
And if one has never driven the rural roads of France, with horrible crowns, lumpy surfaces, off-camber corners in a conventional car at below normal speeds in a conventional car, then switched to a DS, one can never understand why the French invented the DS – they HAD to – this car subdues any rough road to a near velvet experience. It’s a satisfying thrill to waft by normal conveyances in a D at above-normal speeds on poorly maintained hiways as the hoi-polloi rattle along, trying to stay stable on their rocking horses.
During one weekend road rally on the backroads of Pa south of Philly, my navigator and I were flying along a narrow two-lane deep in the woods, when we came upon a Corvette facing the beginning of a dirt stretch. He had slammed on his brakes and began tip-toeing onto the dirt when we blew by him without slowing. Stones rattled around us as we left him in our dust, and admired the way the D soaked up all the ruts, ridges and rumples of that road with nary a concern. Never saw the Vette again –
Dear Ken,
Your drive happend for sure while the rallye monte carlo.
For info.
While the edition in 1959 the results are as follow
First place +Citroen ID19
Second +Simca P60
Third +DB Panhard
Fourth +Citroen ID19
But that is long ago, now I suggest a more gentle drive our roads are wonderful Imagine that drive in the ID, DS, surrounded with lavender fields.
That is a whole experience, in the back trunk there is the bottle of champagne (Or more) a saucisson sec, a camenbert, a baguette.
Which other car can evoke better our culture.
Salut
Very nice Eric! Wish I’d been there then. PS: I also have a DB Lemans roadster and about 16 Panhards – the only car in the world which started production in ’47 with a flat two cylinder aircooled engine using a conrod rollerbearing designed by Leonardo – around 1480!! Leonardo’s last home was provided by his last patron, owner of Chateau Amboise in the Loire Valley – that’s where I saw his sketch of the rollerbearing in 2005 and nearly fell over! Wikipedia acknowledges that everyone in the world owes Leonardo, as he invented the ball and rollerbearings even before the machinery to make them existed! One might say Leonardo put the world on wheels, as almost every rotating thing in production depends on his concept.
Maybe that’s one reason why Citroen used so many expensive but durable bearings on their suspension arms – even for the lowly 2CV.
Ken,
Citroen ID,DS
That is what we can call a “grand ecart”
Leonard de vinci, Francois 1, Rene Panhard & Emile Levassor, Andre Citroen.
Let me add Gilbert du Motier, marquis de La Fayette, Auguste Bartholdi, and here we have the bridge between our great nations.
I am delighted to here that you are driving French from the best.
Let me hope you drinking french also…!
The gap between cars, culture, arts, food, is nowhere so nearow than in the Grande Nation.
For the 1961 Rallie Monte Carlo edition
3 Panhards finished in the first positions.
But this is another story
Salut to all of you loving car falks
Eric, to that illustrious list add Jean-Albert Grégoire, who was a French pioneer in front wheel drive, helping commercialize the Tracta FWD u-joint. He also pioneered whole FWD concept cars, and DKW ended up adopting his driveshaft joints, among others. One of his most significant cars was the Hotchkiss-Gregoire coupe of 1953, which used a huge casting of aluminum as the whole front subframe for the car, and a pancake 4 cylinder FWD powertrain with uniquely long A-arm front suspension, which I saw at Carmel about 2 yrs ago. The car was earlier owned by Ed Cole, once head of GM. Alain Cerf, who owns a prominent classic car museum in Fla., had had the car restored and it showed very well. His cast aluminum concept made it into production in the post-40’s Panhard X-series sedans, along with their flat twin FWD aircooled engine with Leonardo’s rollerbearings.
I have been delighted to see so many car guys understanding the jdv – ‘joy of living’. While I enjoy a UN of car origins it is those manufactured by the French which induce the most joy – I normally have about 4 – current crop shown below
Greg, where the heck are you? and where the heck did you find a Dynamique cabrio – isn’t that what I’m seeing?? Or is it a rare Peugeot? It’s as flashy as a Dynamique at least from this angle shot. Can’t tell without seeing the front. Whatever it is, it’s gorgeous! And an HBR5 – you lucky guyl! I helped a friend fix one of his two HBRs he’d had for yrs but never got back on the road – then he sold them out from under me after yrs of giving him a freebee. Nuts! I still want an Ami 6 break, but my Panhards are soaking up all the room I’ve got here in SJ and Detroit and I have to transport a 2CV this spring from TX to home. I’m currently in Palo Alto Ca., but heading for home in So. Lyon Mi. this spring – would love to see your rides –
I am in SoCal – the Peugeot is a 1939 202 decovrable and is now in the Lane Museum – I bought it in Sweden – not t9 underpowered to drive daily. It as been very capable replaced by a much more driver-friendly car, a Peogeot Pininfarina 404 coupe which has the later KF2 fuel injected high output engine making it right at home on the SoCal freeways or back-country roads, cheers Greg
So Greg, you go to the “Best of French & Italian” show in Van Nuys? And haunt Chuck & Tina’s bookstore? I was down at the show two yrs ago with my PL17 Tigre cabrio. Leno stopped by & asked me if I was going to restore the car. I had to hold my tongue – I considered it restored just fine – it ran & looked ok to me, and not having his endless pockets it’s going to stay as shown. I respect Jay, but he’s in a whole different world! Fact is, the Panhard runs well enough that I can cruise at 80 on the Bay fwys, and I’m sure I could crank it up to 90. The PL and my ’64 Bristol 408 are my bagel & coffee rides. My Com sign if you ever head up to the Bay is CITBeeUeFeFat Geemail.com.
Peugeot 202 is the doctors car. Greg will most likely know where I’m coming from even if no one else does.
Very interesting – Ken are you in the Panhard Club, I am so you can get my email there. gst …….
In 2015 my Peugeot 404 was awarded Best French Car at WoodleyYes pls drop by – always up to shooting the breeze about French cars
Yes Greg – lifetime member. That Peugeot would make my son drool – he’s now become a reasonable Pug 505 expert after jumping the Citroen and Subaru groups. We brought two 505 breaks down from N. Hampshire a yr ago – he towing one on his dolly, while I drove the other one and was suitably impressed. Never realized the wagon has such a nice live axle suspension because the diff/axle housing is cast aluminum! No one else does that to reduce unsprung wt! Just the French being smart again & getting the most out of the laws of physics. I’ll look you up on the club roster –