Some classics leave many enthusiasts scratching their heads, and such is the case with this 1969 Chevrolet Camaro. The seller emphasizes that it is a genuine RS/SS 396, but then confirms that it has received an engine transplant. Sure, the LS6 hiding under the hood should potentially produce more power and torque than the original big-block, but why would you change such a desirable vehicle? Looking beyond that, this classic presents beautifully and is sure to turn heads wherever it goes. I must say a big thank you to Barn Finder Curvette for spotting the Camaro listed here on Craigslist in Granite Falls, Washington. The seller set their price at $74,950 for this potent beast.
The 1969 model year marked the end of the line for Chevrolet’s First Generation Camaro, but it had done enough to cement its place in America’s automotive psyche. It hadn’t sold in the sort of stratospheric numbers enjoyed by the Ford Mustang at the peak of its power, but it certainly closed the gap markedly in 1969. Total Camaro sales were 243,085, against the Mustang’s tally of 299,824. The seller immediately muddies the water with this RS/SS, describing its paint shade as fresh Silver Frost. However, I consulted that year’s color chart, and it seems to indicate that it is actually Frost Green. Leaving that hiccup aside, it is hard to fault its presentation. The use of the word “fresh” in the description suggests a recent restoration, and this is easily believed. The paint shines beautifully, the panels are free from defects, and the underside shots confirm that this classic is rust-free. It features the distinctive RS grille and headlamp covers, while the contrasting White stripes look crisp and clean.
Lifting the hood brings us to the heart of the matter, or what some may see as the bone of contention. The seller emphasizes the fact that this is a genuine RS/SS 396, meaning that it should feature a big-block V8 churning out around 325hp and 410 ft/lbs of torque. The first owner teamed the V8 with a three-speed automatic transmission and power assistance for the steering and front disc brakes. However, (and isn’t there always one of those?), the original motor has made way for a transplant utilizing an LS6 Crate Motor. Its specifications are unclear, but various sources suggest that it should produce at least 385hp and 385 ft/lbs of torque. Both figures could be higher, meaning that performance could be greatly improved. That begs the question of why this occurred. If the original engine suffered some form of catastrophic failure, finding a period-correct replacement would seem the most obvious solution. Sure, the car won’t be numbers-matching if that happened, but it would at least retain a mechanical configuration as devised by its creators. They state that it is a two-owner vehicle, including the original Protect-O-Plate, Pre-Delivery Check Sheet, and the original Registration Card in the deal. What they don’t include is any information regarding how the car runs or drives. Of course, it would be fair to expect no mechanical maladies from any First Generation Camaro within this price range.
The exterior sets the tone for this Camaro’s interior, in terms of both color and condition. There is little to fault inside this beauty, with the seller indicating that it retains its original Green seatcovers. Their condition is exceptional if that is the case, with no evidence of wear or stretching. The carpet looks excellent, as do the dash, pad, console, and faux woodgrain. We know that the interior doesn’t feature air conditioning, but I would be surprised if there wasn’t a radio for in-car entertainment.
It will be fascinating to gauge your feedback on this 1969 Chevrolet Camaro RS/SS 396. Most of you will probably agree that it presents superbly, and that the new owner can hit the road with their head held high. However, it is the question of the engine transplant that will undoubtedly divide opinions. Some will argue that it should never have happened, while others will applaud the seller for finding a way to improve the car’s performance. So, with that thought in mind, it’s over to you.
Wonder what the percentage is of early Camaros that don’t have their original engines. It’s got to be pretty high.
Exactly.
Steve R
I could see doing this to an average Camaro, but not this one. And for that price the original engine should come with it.
I agree bud lee
Looks like a 396 to me.
Am I missing something?
I noticed the engine pic IS a big block . And there is a evaporater assembly for the AC but text sez no ac ??? The people buying these cars wont touch one with a LS . Maybe it should be re posted with correct info.
Why would someone install a crate LS6 in a factory big block car? Why not. In the 1980’s used big blocks were thin on the ground and expensive, through the late-80’s you could walk into an Chevrolet dealer and buy a crate LS6 for a little over $2,000 that came pan to manifold and a warranty. If you had a damaged block or were looking for more power it would have been cheaper than rebuilding your existing engine.
Matching numbers wasn’t that big of a deal back then. When you were looking for a car at that time, you only looked for real 4spd muscle cars and had no intention of leaving them stock. To impose todays standards on something done decades ago is ridiculous. I had several friends make this swap, it turned an SS 396 with a worn out engine into an instant mid-12 second car, it was a no brainer. Would this be done today, no, but the purity police have gone overboard. If you went to any cruise spot or drive-in in the 1970’s or 1980’s very few cars were stock, most of those were being driven by old people.
Steve R
Back in the 70,s a guy that lived close to us had an ss396 69 El Camino and bought a new crate LS6 for it, I think at Berger Chevy. Still had the receipt for it, 853 dollars and some cents.
I think the seller is referring to the LS series LS-6 that was all aluminum and came in C-5 Z06 Corvettes.
The LS-6 was the 1970 454/450 HP motor and was available in both the Corvette and the Chevelle, and was not all aluminum. The C-5 Z-06 had an iron small block. (Also, the all aluminum big block was the Z-11 and is as rare as hens teeth.)
The Z-06 motor was an LS6 small block and I earlier said that is was an iron block which is not correct, (no dash between the S and the 6) The motor referenced here is an LS-6 big block. (A dash between the S and the 6)
oldrodder, you’re close, but the aluminum 427 is code ZL-1, not Z-11. 😉
RH Factor, the seller specifically put LS6 454 in the header for the ad, then refers to the engine as a “GM LS6 crate engine” in the text of the ad and a picture of a big block engine. There shouldn’t be any misinterpretation of what he meant. I think the problem came from the header for the feature on this site starting with “LS”, followed by people not reading the description nor looking at the engine pictures, which clearly shows a big block.
Steve R
Unless there is something wrong with my eyes, that is not a LS6 engine. The engine in the photo is a genuine Chevrolet big block. This add is not passing the smell test.
The story reminds me of a trip I made to the local Advance Auto store in KC North about 15/20 years ago. I walked up on a hugger orange 1969 Yenko Camaro parked at the front of the store. I was checking the car for authenticity with my novice Camaro knowledge (My first car was a 67 SS 350 Camaro). As I was salivating over the car, the owner came out and we started talking about the car.
He told me a crazy story about restoring the car. The original engine was replaced by another BBC in the 70’s and as he searched for years to find a period correct 427 for the car. He finally found one in sitting in the back a shop Belton, MO for some years that seemed close. It turned out to be the missing L72 that was original to the car.
He made the comment, “if you like this car I would probably really like the other car he had parked in his garage”. A Lemans blue 69 Yenko Camaro that was all original.
I asked him how long he had owned the blue Camaro, He said something like “41 years 2 months and 10 days”. He bought it new and was in showroom condition.
This guy had two Yenkos, I’m still green with envy!!
For that price the a/c should be complete and working,
For that price the a/c should be complete and working
Yep! Johnny got a tool box for Christmas and the AC (and the fan shroud and maybe the fan clutch) were the first to go. Cut the $$$ by half for this one!
Raymond is right and I’m surprised no one else spotted the obvious. Are you sure the seller didn’t mean the 454 LS6?
The ad specifically states LS6 454 and shows a big block Chevy engine, there shouldn’t have been any confusion.
There might be some “right fighters” pushing the idea that because the seller didn’t call the engine an LS-6 he meant it was a new generation LS6. If that’s someone argument they probably don’t understand why they don’t get invited to go places.
Steve R
Larry.. you right. I remember growing if you had a SS car with a LS6 in 1970. You had the big mother…. 454 450hp that can beat a Hemi. So i am confused with this write up. It’s a beautiful RS/SS Camaro but can someone in the GM area please tell us what is going on. Thanks.😃
Appears to be a factory A/C car with the vents in the middle of the dash, so not the original engine and they didn’t put A/C back in the car and you want how much? With that being said I love it, very nice looking Camaro, at least they left green and didn’t paint it resale red.
Misleading headline. Generally, “LS-Equipped” means modern LS, rather than the vintage LS seen here.
I am not a Chevy expert but that is not a modern LS motor. Why not hook up the ac as it appears to be a factory ac car? I would assume the 396 brackets and hosing would be the same as a 454 motor.
I have George Washington’s axe – only the head and handle have been replaced…..
GM sold plenty of of LS-6 (note the – between the S and 6) and LS-7 crate 454’s in the 70’s- 90’s. This is probably one of those. The LS6 was the modern aluminium small block in the 2001-2004 Z06. Matching numbers is nice but a 450 horse LS-6 is what I’d want to be driving on the street.
The article title is creating confusion. In today’s world, calling a car LS equipped leads most people to believe it has a modern (2000’s) GM motor in the “LS” family. As others have pointed out, it appears this seller is referring to a LS-6 crate big block 454 to replace the original 396 in this car. Lots of folks whine about not numbers matching these days, but back then, lots of engines and transmissions had to be replaced after some hard days at local drag strips. Wouldn’t it be great if there were still local drag strips in most towns ?
Meh!
I noticed the engine pic IS a big block . And there is a evaporater assembly for the AC but text sez no ac ??? The people buying these cars wont touch one with a LS . Maybe it should be re posted with correct info.
Big difference between LS-6 and LS6. LOOK AT THE PICTURES!!!
Funny thread, LS- Equipped title has thrown many off track. Young and old confusion over modern LS6 and muscle era 1970 LS-6 454 big block chevy which all the 1969 SS396 accessories would bolt on and look same as stock but with more HP and TQ put you more firmly in the seat when throttle pressed. I know, the 4 speed would be great for the purist but many would have more fun and do better with the auto. It would be pretty challenging for most. With 3.55 or taller gears it will definitely skin it back through the first couple of gears. Completely different driving experience than most folks are looking for or have ever experienced. Point and shoot and counter steer until the wheels stop spinning. Automatic requires a little less driving skills but you still have to keep it pointed down the road, when the tires bite you better be lined up in the direction you want to go.
Just a good laugh reading between the lines of all the comments. Both great engines but the LS-6 would be preferred in this car, still not numbers matching but like the others commented for those of us who were there back then… this was very desirable, logical, economic engine swap. Bolts right in, one for one, looks like nothing changed. If you did the work yourself, spent the money for rebuilt most people chose to go even higher HP. $/HP were good with the crate motor back in the days. It was NOS and became an overstock bargain in the late 70s, and 80s.
Just a foot note, the 454 LS6 was never an option on the 70 corvette, the 454LS5 was the top big block for 70. The 70 chevelle did come with the 454LS6 but the corvette didn’t get the LS6 until 71 and only 188 vettes came with it in 71.
Also too much cash for a non matching big block car with most of its original AC stuff missing.
You’re buying on condition and unless you don’t plan to drive it, you’ll probably not get that money back after you’ve put 10k miles on it. IMO
Honestly, if you pay $75k as is, you are not likely to get your money back… for a long time. Fun car, sure, but too many things knocking the price down for those who have and willing to spend the money. Most of them will expect original numbers matching and the a/c to work.
The LS-6 with 450 hp makes it a different driving experience than the stock 325 hp 396 but you do not need to spend $25k for the extra 125 hp thrill ride. Sure does bring back some good memories though, very nice looking car.
My mistake, you are correct that the LS–6 was not available in the ’70 Vette. The LS-5 was the big dog.
Just noticed original owner was Suey Yen Wong… terrific. I am impressed Mr. Wong would purchase this car new. I think this illustrates how in 1969 these were pretty common cars and later, by mid late 70s they were just used cars. I bought my 69 in 77 for $800 and it was very nice, a/c worked. Wish I took better care of it and still had it. I bought my 68 in 80 with 60k miles for $1400 also nice, but no a/c. Still got it, with less than 70,000 miles.
It is 50 years later and $75K ! That is nearly 100X what I paid for original paint, 4 spd, a/c in 77. These restored cars are nice… but something about original, very hard to find today. if this car as is original as the ones we found 50 years ago… maybe you can convince yourself… if you have the $$$$$. Fix the a/c and for less than $80k you got a clean fun driver.
An all original car with complete working a/c might be worth something close to this number
I would have attempted to fix the damaged motor regardless the cost
When? The question is when was this motor replacement done. If you were not a driver, mechanic or someone with money to pay to rebuild the worn or damaged engine… not sure you understand the factors and thinking that went into the decision.
If you owned the car 5 or 10 years ago with the original engine… and had the same decision to make sure, you would have appreciated the value of a 40-45 year old numbers matching classic car. No brainer.
But if this was done 30, 40, or 50 years ago… Unless you are old enough to put yourself in that position… pretty hard for someone to say what they would have done when they were a toddler or before they were born. If you were there, knew these cars, the LS-6 was an easy thing for a young mechanically inclined person to swap or install themselves. Some of us could have done this in our parents garage, some did it in driveways with money saved from our minimum wage after school jobs. Think about it, who wouldn’t. In the 70’s, these were being sold second hand with worn or blown motors for $500-900. Without more details, I just don’t have enough of the history to question why the engine was swapped or to suggest it was a poor decision. It may have made a lot of sense.
Bad decision either way. The original motor has always been the best move. With that said, it might make a difference with knowledge of the extent of the damage.
Bad decision either way. The original motor has always been the best move. With that said, it might make a difference with knowledge of the extent of the damage.
I was 19 in ’69 and if the 396 went south in say ’79, a LS-6 would have been my choice, particularly if the 396 were a 375 horse unit.
Excuse me , but the only people with enough money to buy these cars are ” old people ” .
The dash clearly shows air conditioning outlets.
Barn Find write up explains interior does not feature a/c, probably because with the a/c components shown missing from under the hood, it will not get cold inside. The Compressor, engine mounting brackets, and Condenser are removed. Craigslist ad does not mention a/c. If the original parts were saved and are available that would help the sell, a little.
The factory Evaporator Box is mounted to the firewall, Expansion valve, and aluminum a/c lines still under the hood. All clear signs this was originally a factory a/c car and with time and money could be restored to provide a factory air conditioned interior. Someone who can afford to buy this car could and will probably get it done. On the other hand, if the seller did this work it would make it easier to sell. But without the numbers matching engine it hurts the value as a collector item and still may not bring the asking price. An expensive paint job is nice, the clean west coast history helps. Hood hinges should not be painted body color. The original Harrison brass radiator is replaced with aftermarket aluminum. Collector condition is what pushes the price to these levels.
Someone who spends $75k often looks for build sheets and detailed documented professional inspection by Jerry MacNiesh to confirm originality. This car while nice, in its present condition, may not warrant a Jerry MacNeish inspection, but a buyer still may want a thorough inspection to confirm and assess originality. Others may not care. If you start at $75k intending to restore to original, this is a long term keeper, without expectation of making money or even breaking even.
The factory a/c could be made to work but does not seem well suited for the LS-6. These factors make the price hard to get for this car in this condition. A good option for someone may be to restore to factory spec and find another use for the LS-6. A period correct LS-6, even crate motor, would be worth some money in a Chevelle or other project.
Sorry guys, but I would rather have the LS-6 than the factory motor. Maybe keep the factory motor around in case you wanted to sell it to one of these guys that have to have everything original. I would rather have a good hotrod that hauls ass. As a kid we swapped a lot of motors out for the highest horsepower we could get or afford. I would still do that today if I could afford some of these old rides. We also pulled the ac parts off of most of the cars to remove weight, helped cooling and we could roll the windows down. And by the way, I am an old guy.
It is a beautiful car though.