The Renault 16 or R16 is a car that is rarely seen in the United States and they were only officially sold here for the 1969 through 1972 model years. I can’t remember the last time that I’ve seen one in person, easily a decade or more. The seller has this 1972 Renault 16 five-door hatchback listed here as a Barn Finds Classified and it’s also listed here on eBay. It’s located in Great Falls, Montana and they don’t list a price on the Classified, but the eBay auction is at $1,625 but the reserve isn’t met.
That is one unique profile! Legend has it that America wouldn’t produce a similarly-sized four-door sedan hatchback until 1980 when the Chevy Citation and/or Pontiac Phoenix hit the market. It’s somewhere between a sedan and a wagon. There is just something unique about French designs. One very unusual part of this listing is that the seller doesn’t give us even a tiny glimpse of the right side of the vehicle at all, not even a sliver of a view of it. For all we know it could be missing its doors and fenders. I’m not sure why that is but they do show a somewhat scary bubbling rust spot on the top of the right front fender.
Renault is reported to have sold more than 1.8-million R16s over about a fifteen-year period starting in 1965. They must be rare sights, we’ve only seen three of them here on Barn Finds over the last few years before this one. I have mentioned that I recently had a really nice Renault GTA and that was a great, trouble-free car in the two or three years that I owned it. It was fun to drive with a really nice, tight 6-speed manual. I thought that I had seen this car for sale on Facebook Marketplace for $3,500 but I could be mistaken, I wonder what their reserve is?
This R16 has a Renault three-speed automatic with a column shifter. I always like manual transmissions, or almost always – maybe not in a Bentley or Sno Runner. In a car like this Renault 16, I have to believe that a manual would make for a more engaging driving experience. That being said, my GTA was very comfortable with a fantastic ride and the seller says that this R16 gives a ride like no other vehicle that they’ve had experience with. From what I’ve read about them, I would really like to drive one someday. The seats look perfect both front and rear and the hatchback opens to give a decent amount of storage room behind the rear seats and as you can see, it’s filled to the brim.
The engine should be Renault’s 821 series 1.6L inline-four which is mounted between the transmission (this is a front-wheel-drive car) and the passenger compartment. It would have had around 70 horsepower which isn’t a lot when combined with an automatic transmission but these cars aren’t about speed. The seller tells us that this car is a barn find that they found at an estate sale a year ago and it shifts and brakes great but you need to keep the choke pulled out in order for it to run perfectly. Have any of you owned an R16?
I suspect that the driver would be fully engaged at all times when driving this beauty, auto or manual notwithstanding. I love French cars.
Here’s “my” French car quote again: “Once you own a French car, nothing worse can happen to you”.
I wonder if the Civic EF in the background is for sale
I don’t mean to sound like a broken record ( that phrase sure dates me) but any kind of obscure listing in the banner headline, even without the writer listed until you click on it, stuff like this always has Scotty’s name on it.
Actually, I remember a few of these running around, noticed because of it’s odd shape, almost “2CV” like. I’ve said before, French make great cars, but it’s as if, they strive to be as UNconventional as possible. I do recognize the AC compressor,,really? That’s got to zap what little hp there is. Jug of coolant inside, always a bad sign, and parts for a R16? How’s that workin’ out for you?
> French make great cars, but it’s as if, they strive to be as UNconventional as possible.
“The French copy nobody, and nobody copies the French.”
Howard you sound more like a broken MP3 to me (and no I am not some young whippersnapper). 🤣🤣🤣
Hey Howard A, that jug of coolant is the radiator expansion tank – standard eqpt on the R16, of which I had two – a couple yrs ago til I lost my storage in San Jose Ca.
The R16 was Renault’s response to Citroen’s DS19/21 series cars. The French are the world’s BEST suspension engineers when it comes to astonishing comfort that makes all other cars seem like buckboards. The 16 all-torsionbar suspension is SO good it rivals the DS hydropneumatic system, without high pressure hydraulics. When I drove my ’71 Slime Green 16 on the SF bay area’s hwy 101 – potholed so badly that it made most modern cars feel like dumptrucks – I just blew past them all as fast as I could go, floating over the garbage surface with excellent comfort
Few people understand the creative thinking found in many French cars – compared to the rest of the humdrum world clunkers. For example, to get extra wheel travel and make the suspension a low rising rate spring system, the rear torsionbars are full width per wheel, and they are cleverly packaged by making the wheelbase longer on one side vs the opposite one – so the torsionbars can be the most effective length, meaning full chassis width – for comfort, yet the car handles just fine.
My ’71 sedan/hatchback always mystified the Porsche folks on the many roadrallies I ran in that car. Often at rest stops, drivers would come up and tell me I only had 3 wheels on the ground around that last highs speed sweeper, and I’d say “so?”
They never understood “French roll”. The 16 is plenty safe even with only one rear wheel on the ground. And my GF and I were far more comfortable at any speed than every other car on the run.
Inside, the R16 is the epitome of space efficiency. The rear window deck is removable sans tools, as is the entire back seat. The rear seatback can be pivoted up and hung from the grab straps to free up horizontal space for lugging long items, and all the backseat parts and shelves come out quickly to provide enough room to carry a full-length refrigerator – if you can lift it over the rear ledge. Front seats fold flat for overnighting. The spare fits under the hood, so no floorspace lost to that.
And the cars give about 30+ mpg, and cruise nicely at 75-80 all day long. The FWD system is really a mid-engine arrangement, with the engine against the firewall, and the transaxle up front, which makes for very good weight distribution and great handling.
The only issue with this car would be the BorgWarner slushbox – don’t know what you’d do for service on that one. Further, factory manuals in all languages are excellent – very detailed and better than any other manuals. Only the Citroen DS19 manuals are better – they’re works of art from the Tech folks back in the day, with to-scale engineering drawings that make everything else look amateurish. And most people don’t realie that the French energy system is around 80% nuclear, and much safer than any other systems in the world, They’ve been much smarter in that field than anyone else, and it works. That’s what you do when your country isn’t undermined by oil fields. Nuff said –
The auto’s a Renault built electronic 3 speed. But total crap anyway :) otherwise you know your R16’s well!!
You are right Howard. I did a quick search and I think you will have a hard time with any parts for this car. I like the looks and the quirky nature of this car. Very much reminds me of a poor mans Citroen. However if you like quirky buy a Citroen where parts and community support is much stronger.
Thanks,Scotty. You always give a little love to the runts of the litter. Worlds a better place for it,
Neat car. Important and trendsetting. Haven’t seen one in the wild in decades. It’d be worth the parts hardships. Seems there’s a surprisingly decent network of Renault people hiding out there.
Parts availability would be my concern – typically the R4 & R8s are better supported – I owned an R15 in Canada (it & the R17 were 2-door sport coupés similar to these). Nice cars but not outstanding. However the R8 Turbo is a different kettle of fish :-)
Used to see this around Canada when I lived there but never have seen one in the US. When I saw Montana plates I figured someone must have dragged it over the border a long time ago
Used to see *these* not this
Id rather have a pair of American shoes than a French car….way more reliable and easier to maintain.
Good God thats ugly
Oh mon dieu! I worked on 100’s of these when I lived in France back in the 70’s. Nice cushy fairly large car for the peuple français. Cheaper to own and WAY less complicated than the Citroen DS which was killed off in ‘75. The R16 went out a few years later. I always liked the final upscale 16TX with the column shifted 5 speed. But hands down, I’ll take a DS any day, IMHO. I owned 2 D’s back during those years and I would like another now. You gotta hand it to the French, they put out some amazing and unconventional cars over the decades.
Ah Butch – you’re right – the DS is the ultimate intelligent and best riding car ever devised! I grew up with them, starting in ’62 with my father’s fascinating ’58 DS19 – only 3 yrs after they were introduced at the Oct ’55 Paris auto show, where they blew the world’s minds bigtime! And I’m 77 and now restoring a first yr production car – a 1956, VIN 10650. That VIN qualifies it as one of the 12,000 orders Citroen took during the first day of the Paris introduction. By the end of the week’s show, 80,000 orders had been placed – for a car no one in the world had seen before that show!! That record stood until 2016, when a Tesla surpassed that order volume. How’s that fellas??
In the mid ’80s, during a meeting with Delco and GM engineers I was helping, the GM guy found out I was a Citroen buff, and told me his story: In 1957, shortly after the DS19 introduction, he and another GM executive engineer, ordered one or two early DS19s – to study and cost analyze – as they have always done with competitive cars. They had their accountants and mfring engineers do a teardown and ride and drives. In the evaluation session, their team told them that, for GM to produce a DS19, would COST them $10,000 – in ’57 $$. No profit – just build cost! GM was baffled by how Citroen could produce the car, which was then about the retail price of a highline GM car.
Recently, I think I have the GM car, which I bought out of a Detroit junkyard about 19 yrs ago, and it is currently providing original first yr production parts to complete the restoration of my ravine-find car – from —–Montana! Montana it seems has one of the driest climates in the US – 2 inches of rain/yr where I found this car – and only two small rust holes in the floorpan – none on doors/fenders/chassis – amazing – so Montana cars can be real survivors. wish I had the room for this R16 – I miss the ones I had to pass on to others, but one went to the grandson of a close friend in Ca.
Probably as good as you can possibly find in this country. I’ve seen restored examples in Europe and they really caught my eye. Remember looking at these at Renault dealers when they were new. Have a more tuned version of this R16 engine in my Lotus Europa.
Never seen A/C on one before. Only worked on one. That was enough for me.
These were popular in my home town of Quebec. I had a couple of friends who had them, (though not automatics). Very comfortable. Unfortunately they rusted badly in the salt.
Yep, as mentioned. Great engine for the Europa.
Typical French automotive architecture. Homely as an old shoe.
My parents owned a R 16 back in the early 70’s. It was a 4-on-the-tree. Sadly, as we (my parents and my wife and myself) were heading out to Arizona from Missouri, the transmission started locking up on us. (My father had replaced the transmission drain plug with a pressure plug and clearly that was the wrong way to go.) So, that ended the trip, sadly. Loved driving it! Rode very nicely. Would have loved to have driven it to Arizona and back. He had to wait several days, but my dad did get the car repaired, but too late for the trip.
The guy who lived next to my dad’s hunting camp had one of these sitting in his driveway along with a Honda Z600. It would have been the late 70s/early 80s, and they were the strangest cars I had ever seen.
Rare in the US because , well look at it ugly as sin ungainly slow and not great on gas so no wonder why the didn’t sell them and are rare now
I love that quote once you own a French car
Nothing worse can ever happen to you
I had one for several months and although it was only a 1600cc it went like stink! The drivers seat was the most comfortable of any car I have ever driven. Biggest fault was rust.
I must be bonkers. My first car was a 1966 R10 1100cc, the second a 1974 R12 TL 1300cc and the third a 16TS.
I owned the R10 from 1974 to 1976, the R12 from 1976 to 1980. The 16 TS I only owned for three months but it was pure heaven to drive on longer trips and I managed 1 600 Kms from Johannesburg to Cape Town in 12 hours very comfortably.
My 16 TS was fitted with an Alconi cam and modified Weber carburettor. Managed the magic 100 m.p.h. but cruised happily at 80 m.p.h. for hours on hand
In between I owned a R8 Gordini which I regret selling to this day.
The 16TS motor fitted in the R8 as if it was designed for it. So many 16TS were cannibalised for their engines to do duty in the R8’s and the R10’s that they disappeared completely.
The 16TS, like the R5, was front mid-engined, like the Citroen DS, a markedly French characteristic.
Great reliable car. Why did I get rid of it? I sold for much more than I had paid for it and I discovered Alfa Romeo.
But the little Citroen Gs has to be the most practical of all the French cars I have ever driven. And even better on the open road than the 16TS.
Boy, I think it’s handsome…wish it had the 4 speed.
My uncle started out as a Mopar man then for some reason switched to Renaults, having an R8, then switched to an R10 then finally his and her’s R16s, her’s an automatic. I learned how to drive a stick on those cars. Great fun! The R16s have the most comfortable seats in any car I’ve ever driven. Like all cars of the time susceptible to rust. Quite different than the family ’64 Dart sedan!
These ended with a 5-speed column change come the end of production!
I had two. Rode in one once and had to have one. Great cars, extremely comfortable quiet and got 36 mpg while cruising at 72 mph.
To my new friend Ken Nelson! Yes you definitely know your frog cars! You are far luckier than me to been have been surrounded by the French Goddess. The 2 I owned in France, ‘75 DS20 Break and ‘73 D Super I bought to help out my visiting sister and brother-in-law and their NJ friends with car rental costs. I kept the 73 for a while longer afterwards. Knowing today that the 75 Break (wagon for you non French car guys), was the last year of production, Citroen only built less than 900 total DS’s. That means really rare. But back it was just an old obsolete car I bought for $2000. Nobody cared. The D Super I paid $750! But, Ken I wish the best of luck with DS restoration. With such an early car, does it have the suspension height lever? It appeared sometime in1956. Also if you can read French, check out http://www.nuancierds.fr. You’ll find a lot of interesting facts and info on the DS.
Back in the early 70’s my brother’s girlfriend had one of these. She was a bit of a cheat and bro learned that she had a “friend” coming over as he brother was slated to drive me back to Austin in his car. So clever brother, acting on this info told her that his car was inoperative and that we put off my return trip by a day. She freaked and instantly offered the use of her R16 for the 400 mile Dallas-Austin-Dallas trip. My brother doubled down by asking her for gas money….she happily coughed up a few twenties.
We set off on Texas backroads, testing the handling, comfort and durability of the R16. Bro was determined to lunch her engine: winding it up horribly in all the lower gears….cruising at mad speeds in third, never letting the poor beast breathe in fourth gear. The whole trip he was ranting about his girlfriend’s messing around on him, while he delighted in trying to kill the poor, ugly R16.
Car came through all that abuse in fine manner….and great seats to boot!
Auction update: this auction ended with no sale at $2,950 then it ran again and it says that it sold at $3,500.
I see some comments about parts on this thread. If anyone is interested, my dad’s one owner 1969 R16 is sitting (outside) and really needs to go. This is definitely a ‘bring your trailer’ kind of deal.
I don’t know if it’s best to post ‘for sale’ on a site like this, or just what. I’d love to see it go to someone who needs the parts, rather than me taking it to salvage.
Let me toss in my agreement about the French and their work on suspension. I remember going down the gravel road to my grandparents farm and this car just floated along, unlike any other car.
I owned a 1970 R17 with the automatic. This car was one of my favorite car as it was such a comfortable ride. suspension like no other car I’ve owned and the seats were extremely comfortable. My father owned a 1969 with the 4 speed on the column. I wish I still had either one of these cars. However, finding parts in the late 70’s was problematic and i can’t even imagine today. This car was also a nightmare to keep tuned up and running. about every 4 to 6 months needed TLC as the car would begin to run poorly. With all that being said, such fond memories of this car.