Here’s the engine bay. The seller doesn’t mention whether this Spider was born a veloce or not – and that makes a big difference in its value. A buyer can submit the chassis number and VIN to the Classic Alfa Registry and hope for an answer someday. That said, plenty of owners have recreated veloce specifications to the extent possible (a few of the characteristics are nuanced) or even upgraded to a 2.0-liter engine, with an eye to enjoying increased performance without regard to value. The 1570 cc veloce used high-performance pistons and twin Webers to generate 115 hp, while the “normale” made do with a lower compression ratio and a single Weber to manage about 95 hp. Both Giulias were equipped with Alfa’s four-speed manual (watch those synchros!).
The cabin is a mess! But the gauges, instrument panel, interior trim, e-brake, steering wheel, seats, top frame, and other parts are still present. The pedal box hints at the extent of the corrosion: when sheet metal has turned to sheet rust, it’s impressive.
The buyer will either dismantle this car for its parts or he will be replacing just about every curve and straightedge with new metal. (Sometimes I see a car like this and wonder how it was stored …) Is there enough here to save the car, or is its best use as a donor to more worthy candidates? And at what price? Scanning recent results shows that respectable examples in running condition but needing work sell in the $30k area; excellent cars change hands in the $60k area or higher. This 1600 engine is available on eBay for $4950, exclusive of shipping. Notching that cost on top of the asking price yields five figures before even a lick of work has started. I vote for paying less with an eye to breaking this car for parts – what do you think?
Clearly, the bottom of the barrel, on this here side of the water anyway. You wouldn’t know it, but these have become the Holy Grail for Alfa followers, and for good reason. They are awesome cars. I was lucky enough to experience one for myself. In the early 70s, my brother bought a ’63 like this, in pretty good shape, for,,,$500! AND,,,the guy “threw in” a very tired TR4, that ran. We sold the TR4 for $200, and for $300, quite a deal, no? Well, to be clear, it WAS the 70s, and there was very little interest in a car like this, the British had the roadster market cornered. The motor was a model of perfection, high revving, 5 speed, what a ride! These had a unique 3 shoe drum brakes, that was as good as a disc, and handled suberb. A Fiat it wasn’t. Then one day, #3 spark plug blew out, we took it apart, but must have had the cam timing off a bit upon reassembly, as it never ran the same, young punks had no business messing with an Alfa and he partially traded it for a ’58 100-6, with equally great results. It was the 70s,,,
Holy crap, Howard, you liked a furrin’ car! Now, don’t take offense, as I think you and I get along OK these days. I just don’t recall a lot of iron from across the pond that you have had good things to say about.
Of course, I may be completely wrong; that happens with annoying frequency.
But Alfas are cool, we can agree on that!
I know stranger things may have happened, but I had a slew of furrin’ cars, or at least came in contact with them, in some capacity. Heck, I was a VW Bug mechanic for 2 whole days! I never personally had an Italian vehicle, I was much more partial to British or German cars, it was my brother that had the car like this. What’s amazing is, the only way this car could get like this, is it was driven YEAR ‘ROUND, in the slop and salt, at one time, it was just someones beater. I don’t recall it having much, if any of a heater.
And we cool,,
Before settling for a mechanic racer of a Bertone Fiat X1/9 to servis my X1/9 in Salonica in the early 80’s i once used a regular Fiat service shop. During the routine maintenance it was time to check the valves clearence at the 100,000 km mark. It uses metalic plates to control the distance but it needs 0.4 mm clearence. The young mechanic in the Fiat service adjusted the clearence to 0.15 mm as in every other Fiat car but the X1/9 runs with an Abarth engine. It resulted in serious engine damage with the valves hitting the pistons. I returned the damaged car, the chief mechanic had an argument with the mechanic, he admitted the error but i was forced to pay for the repair of his young mechanic.
It hurts me to say it, because I love all small roadsters… but thus is nothing but scrap metal.
Another Italian sports car being sold by Dennis Collins was featured on this site within the last two days, the other being the 1959 Moretti. He probably came across a stash of parts/project Italian sports cars. Are these so rare and desirable someone would actually try and restore this mess? Is $6,500 a realistic price for this rusty hulk?
This rivals the worst of the rusty Mopars featured on this site.
Steve R
This listing is pure entertainment. Good god, just give the thing to an Alfa specialist so they can come and get it and maybe salvage a few parts.
O. Brother. Y Bother.
Reattach anchor chain, although electrolysis rules out long-term use in salt water.
I would want the seller to pay ME $6500 to take it, plus pay the hauler’s bill. easier and cheaper to buy one restored already.
You have got to be kidding.
Does get the “you’ve got to be kidding award” of the month.
Mr. Collins should be ashamed to be asking this kind of money for this rotted out tin can. you know he paid very little for this and whatever it was its more than i would have paid.
Surprised Dennis would put out junk like this. He is a car enthusiast of the highest order.
Wow. Really sad!
It’s absolutely worthless at this point. Just crush it already.
Put it out of everyone’s misery? Ha, perfect.
? oh why?
The windshield looks good….Can you buy the whole thing, but just get the windshield and leave the rest?
Parts?? What parts?
There are additional pictures in the description that show accompanying parts, this is a lot more complete in terms of trim and small parts than it initially appears. It still seems expensive, but that’s for an Alpha Romeo enthusiast to determine.
Steve R
Any Alfa Romeo Spider, air-cooled Porsche 911, Mercedes Gullwing, and early Corvette have one thing in common: They are so coveted that they could sit in a lake for 30 years – and even then they are the stuff dreams are made of.
Looks like they left the salt bags from winter, in the trunk, for around 40 years. Good old Dennis Collins. Probably paid $500 for the whole lot.
Michelle, do you have ownership trail?
This could be the 63 Guilia I bought in 1970 when I left the army. I paid about 1k. After a few years I traded it for an MGB GT and cash. A bit surprised at the prices you mentioned.
I’ve been thinking it was a 5 speed but it went away over 50 years ago.
Hi Rallye, you’d have to contact the seller via eBay to check on ownership history. What’s intriguing is that there weren’t many of these made, so the car you recall might be this one, you never know.
I thought there were quite a few red we with black spiders.
If I start writing the story about the second one. My driver will pull up and I hop to t he truck.
Last comment I’d had my therapy. Not that kind! For my recently reassembled ankle and leg. Now at a full keyboard and I’ll tell ya the story.
I cruised around California looking for jobs and visited a cousin in San Diego. I found a couple of interesting shops to work in. I’ll go back home to WI and think about them, seriously. So I rented a garage to store the Alfa for A few weeks. Tried to take a train but that’s when things were strange with the railroads in 1970. Since I had arranged to leave the Alfa, I took a bus. Back in Wi, stepfather :”You deserve a little. Collect unemployment for the summer and get lots of P*ssy in Elkhart Lake.( I barely knew him, He’d married my mother when I was away.) OK. He worked at Gilson Bros and said I should apply there because there were rumors of a layoff. I did and they hired me on the spot to weld and the $s and bennies were decent. The next summer when Gilson had the 2 week shutdown, I went to Riverside to fetch the Alfa with my 48 Chev panel truck. All went well on the way back till in Nebraska. It’s not good sign when you get stopped on the interstate at noon for a burned out headlamp. I had copies of all paper work and the trip permit I bought in CA to tow without renewing the registration. The state trooper was very thorough. He checked every number he could find on the car and declared it stolen. Handcuffs and hauled away, yup! Trooper “see that building over there, that’s … and here we have…. are you having a good time boy?”. Very challenging to straighten out a multi-state error in a jailcell without my glasses or shoelaces ( they didn’t want me to kill myself before their food did). Red Gulia with black interior from CT was stolen in NYC and the color codes were entered on the stolen car list.
I had to pay towing and storage before I could finish the trip.
Interesting write-up Michelle. Having owned Alfas some 60+ years ago, as well as currently, any Alfa articles grab my attention. You are correct in that very few Giulia Spiders were produced in 1964. There were 1,945 Spider Normale Tipo 101.23 produced and only 290 Spider Veloce Tipo 101.18. AFAIK, all Giulias were fitted with a 5 speed transmission as was my 1963 Giulia Bertone Sprint (S/N 10112.356464*).
The 1570cc Normale produced 92 hp @ 6200 rpm while the Veloce offered 112 hp @ 6500 rpm. The 1570 cc engine was a major improvement over the 1290 cc that had powered my 1957 Giulietta Spider (1495-01577*). I no longer had to row the gearbox in traffic. And yes Michelle, 2nd gear synchros were still a problem.
Fast forward to the late 1980’s, We’re visiting an Italian company in the Bologna area. We were greeted by the owner of the firm who I was told is a car nut. We briefly discussed autos and racing (the Imola Circuit is nearby). After the morning meeting, a manager announces an adjournment for lunch at a restaurant in another town. As several of us walk into the car park, the owner hands me a set of keys, points to a mint condition 1963 Giulietta Bertone Sprint (identical to my former Giulia Sprint except European market 1290 cc engine) and tells me that will be my ride and his lovely secretary will ride shotgun to make sure I don’t get lost! WOW !
The seller’s car is a basket case. Restoration costs will probably exceed the value when, and if, completed.
P.S. I had a great working relationship with that company for more than 20 years and we’ve kept in touch after my retirement.
* If any reader currently has either of these Alfas, I would like to hear from
you.