This Aston MartinDB 2/4 MK III coupe is a famous car, originally bestowed to the care of Sir Stirling Moss. But it also stands out to me for another reason, as an Alfred Hitchcock fan: the drophead version of this car featured predominatly in the thriller The Birds! OK, back to this car: well, it’s listed for $750,000 and is available here on eBay somewhere in Ontario.
Yes, that’s an awful lot of coin, but if the provenance can be proven, what a car: “The car was dispatched to Stirling Moss from David Brown Industries on April 15, 1958 as his personal livery for the company. The Aston was tested and used by Stirling Moss in Motor Racing and Motor Rally magazine in December 1958.” Anything graced by the hands of Stirling Moss tends to accelerate quickly, both in speed and value.
The Aston is truly crammed in the garage, and it’s obviously not the only significant vehicle the seller owns. As you can see, the partially stripped car has undergone some level of restoration, with the seller noting that the “…body, paint, chrome, wiring harness and engine with transmission completed in 1980.” The interior was the next step of the restoration but never completed.
The Aston Martin entered Canada in 1975 and has been with the owner for 43 years. It must be bittersweet knowing so much of the restoration has been completed but there’s still so much left to do – and who knows if the engine rebuild would need to be performed again. The biggest need here is credibility: while the magazine photos do show Moss next to a similar car, what other detective work can be done to prove this one was definitively his?
Once again we have a car with the sort of alleged provenance that commands stratospheric and an unreal asking price. Yet the car has sat abandoned in a corner unfinished for thirty eight years? Funny how unfinished cars , no op, “ran when parked” command the kind of prices finished cars once did. I’m waiting for THIS bubble to burst.
It and the owner can ‘command” till the cows come home, and one of the cows has a check or cash. It may well sit for another 38 years. How many people alive today care about Stirling Moss and any association he may or may not have had with the car? Having a “famous” previous owner is for me, a real stretch in determining the value of a car.
Sir Sterling Moss is a british icon and anyone who is a fan of F1 racing will tell you he won his 1st British Grand Prix in 1955 driving Aston Martins. So yes it matters. He’s our champ and we love him.
Ricardo,
Before you get all teary eyed about Sterling, let us remember that due to his unfortunate accident his career in F1 was truncated at a very early age. Was he good, yes, was he famous and loved, yes undoubtedly, but please don’t forget the most famous of all British F1 stars – Jimmy Clark. Now we are talking talent.
And there have been many others since him too …..
Sterlings greatest achievement in his career was actually his Mercedes drive on the MM with Jenks – now that was something.
Second to that was taking a Cooper F2 car to overall victory in 58 – first victory for a mid-engined, underpowered car – set a new direction in F1.
Peter
Hello,
I AM the owner of the car and it is funny how people can predict if it is Stirling Moss’ car when they do not even speak to the owner? If you have any questions please give me a phone call which is in the ad and I will talk to them about authenticity.
Thanks Wayne.
Wayne it would be nice to put these naysayers to rest.
Please phone me at 905-834-5715 and I will tell you about the history, but I think you like to speculate more without knowing the true facts.
Wayne Young.
Thank you! That’s exactly what I’ve said more than once – talk to the owner – too much miscommunication when it’s all done by email and internet and as a frequent seller, my observation is time wasters email, scammers text and only serious buyers call.
This is a hell of a buy
for collectors that UNDERSTAND cars.
Isn’t Stirling Moss still alive? Can’t somebody just call him up and ask him if it was his car?
He may not remember.
I know someone who did a job for Sir Sterling a couple of years ago by coincidence. He lives in London.
Should be easy to find. Look for the “S.Moss” mailbox.
Ike, would that make it a “Moss box”?
I’ll bet Carroll Shelby drove this car also, but you can’t call him about it.
Rumor has it that after a night of beer and Texas chili at Silverstone, Ol Shel broke wind in the Aston to the point of effectively lowering its value by $100,000. It is said it took Sir Stirling three months to clear the air (So to speak) Shelby also gave new meaning to the term “Cheeky Yank”
Just wondering…..is eBay really the right venue for selling a $750,000 car!?
Have there been cars on Mecum that reach this level?
But I also notice no bids too.
I have asked this question when I see high-end cars offered on CL or eBay. If I have a $750,000 car (Not in this lifetime or the next three) I will gladly hand a broker a check to handle all of the details.
Quite possibly because eBay doesn’t check the credibility of statements made by the seller where as Mecum does! If the claim isn’t true or the seller can’t prove that it’s true then Mecum wouldn’t allow it to be brought up while the car was being sold. EBay or CL allow the seller to make any statement about an item’s history without having to prove it.
Good point Mark, I hadn’t thought about that!
Mecum has certainly been party to auctioning fakes, as this recent buyer of a 23 window VW bus found out the hard way. Guy dropped $135,000 by mistakenly accepting Mecum’s certification it was genuine. Hard to understand why they didn’t rescind the deal, give the seller his bogus bus back and refund the buyer. Instead, Mecum are siding with the seller.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=694683&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Back to this Aston… if the Moss provenance can be proven he’ll get a premium, but even then the asking price is about $500K optimistic. Fully restored examples trade in the $250-300 +/- range.
Dear Mark,
I have talked to RM Auctions and Gooding Auctions 3 years ago and I told them I would like to finish the car, but obviously that has not happened. I would like to finish the car if I brought it to the auction. I am not in a position to do that right now, that is why I am selling it the way it is. Another way of telling for authenticity concerns the engine number which is stamped on the head, but it is more of an embossing process. I still say if anybody would like to question me please phone at 905-834-5715 and I will gladly talk to you about any questions you have on the car.
It’s listed in Hemmings too
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/aston-martin/db2-4/2109469.html
I’m sure I read an article in Hemmings recently where Sir Stirling’s son was taking down the Stirling Moss website due to failing health of the principal. I personally talked to Moss at a very early (1962) race at Mosport, Ontario, where a corner is named in his honour. He was my boyhood hero when I grew up in the UK. He was a Mille Miglia winner, GB GP winner in Mercedes.
A great classic touring car in it’s own right, let alone a supposed Stirling Moss provenance. But how many post baby boomers are familiar with the man, or the car? Many people are only familiar with the Bond (DB5) Aston and successive models.This car is only for high end collectors with connections, time and deep pockets. When finished, even with a reasonable purchase price, you would probably not be able to recoup your investment. This car would have to be restored and owned by someone who just loves the vehicle.
I can assure you Moss would remember . Call him. He has likely the best memory of any historical race driver. A memory that is mathematic. Asking price may seem high, but Aston Martins new heritage department launch will send the Best of the DB series over the moon. These cars, with their support of the works coming on now, assure heritage value on early, currently undervalued , DB Mk III .
Looks like it might be a good car to start with in getting to a DB2/4 Mk III, but I don’t see any evidence from enlarged versions of the documents in the listing that the car was headed to Stirling Moss for a road test. And even if it was, that doesn’t mean that Moss owned the car, so a connection to him seems weak at best.
Buy the car for the car, not for Mr Moss, who is definitely still with us and makes appearances at various motoring events from time to time. And as Pebblebeachjudge says, Sir Stirling would likely remember testing the car if he actually did test it.
From the listing in Hemmings that Pat linked to, it seems that Jeff, who wrote this story up, has a better understanding of how Sir Stirling Moss spells his first name than the owner of this Aston does (Stirling, not Sterling).
I agree with Pebblebeachjudge that these early Astons are probably undervalued, but the asking for this particular car is way too high. These have been selling for a median price of just under $300K at major auctions in excellent condition lately (SCM Guide).
big bucks car, zero feedback for the seller…be wary
Good luck
Please give me a call, I am the owner 905-834-5715.
Wayne Young
Looks like that front end would fit a pair of bullet nose Studebaker lights perfectly
2019 Aston Martin V8 Vantage.503 HP. Top speed 195 MPH. Every creature comfort imaginable $155,000 estimated price.
Good luck trying to reach Sir Stirling!
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/133977/stirling-moss-retires-from-public-life
Back in the 80’s I was offered a similar, albeit without the Sir Sterling Moss heritage DB 2/4 that was in need of restoration for $3500 and a nice Volvo P1800 for $1200. Knowing the potential cost and my skill level I passed but within months acquired a Lotus Elan+2, package deal of 65 Lotus Cortina and Ford Cortina GT, a 67 Alfa Romeo Gulia Sprint GT Veloce and a Lotus 41 for $1500. Well that was their introductory cost, those were the days…
My mother’s maiden name was Moss and she grew up in London before emigrating to the US – maybe Stirling is a long lost relative! Anyhow if the current owner has had it for 43 years, he may not remember, either. Looks like he’s sharp enough to realize that if he hasn’t gotten around to restoring by now, it’s likely never gonna happen. RE: The Aston Martin roadster driven in “The Birds” by actress Tippi Hendren (mother of Melanie Griffith) I was a little kid when that movie came out and didn’t see it until it was first shown on TV (probably 1966) when I 9-10 yrs old, anyhow me and my friends were all car freaks even in elementary school, and none of us had any idea what kind of car that was (didn’t have any badging readily identifiable and besides no internet to look up that kind of thing) anyhow wasn’t until many years later that I was able to identify it, just didn’t see any Aston Martins around back then
It amazes me the disrespectful comments about SirStirling Moss. One of the very best F1 drivers in the history of the sport and other Motorsport events. Class is not common in the above comments, a sad commentary about the readers.
Cotobob ! I agree with you 100%. Seems like a lot of clueless punks read BarnFinds.
I am not an ardent follower of WITB because of some of the comments. Many are not knowledgeable about “classic” cars etc. so I try to overlook their comments but once in awhile I have to speak up.
I am absolutely amazed as well. Stirling Moss is a racing legend. Millions remember him. If you are interested in cars at all, you should know this name. I pity the lack of class or respect shown here. He had retired just as I was born, but I am well aware of his accomplishments and his place in automotive history. If there is documentation that he owned this car (and there would need to be) it would definitely inflate the price.
From Wikipedia:
Sir Stirling Craufurd Moss OBE (born 17 September 1929) is a British former Formula One racing driver. An inductee into the International Motorsports Hall of Fame, he won 212 of the 529 races he entered across several categories of competition and has been described as “the greatest driver never to win the World Championship”.[2][3][4] In a seven-year span between 1955 and 1961 Moss finished as championship runner-up four times and third the other three.
Why do you even question “IF” there is documentation that he owned the car, don’t you read all of these comments – of course Aston Martin records still exist and if you have the chassis number you can get the history for that particular car. No mystery involved. All I want to know is, of you who question the car’s provenance – what did the seller say to you when you asked?Internet forums seem to breed all sorts of silly comments and suspicions that would be quickly put to rest if buyers and sellers simply talked to each other – that’s talk as in speech and hearing, one on one, not typed replies to anonymous in-boxes!
You think the seller would have sprung for professional photos with that price tag
Perhaps seller is targeting (with asking price) the former owner who can afford to buy it back.
Nice car! I always thought the DB Mk III was the best looking of the DB series, and I’ve owned all of them including the prototype. One of my all time favorites was a lovely DB Mk III drophead in flawless black with a creamy tan leather interior and tan canvas top. I can’t say that Stirling was a friend of mine, but certainly an acquaintance. I remember him as being a really good guy and every inch a gentleman and I have no doubt that he still is though I have not been in touch with him in many years. Good Lord but that’s a lot of money for an old car but someone may very well pay it I suppose.
Poor presentation.
If he wants that kind of money he will have to fully restore it.
And show some documentation.
He is wasting his time
my pontification on Aston Martin. summer of 1963, drove the 47 Ford woodie (with columbia rear end)from Seattle to NYC, and met my buddy’s uncle Sy Kaback. He was Lotus distributor for the US. He raced Loti, with Lloyd Ruby as his driver. Got to see all the eastern tracks and sat around after a race at Watkins Glen with Sy, Lloyd, Roger Penske, Mark Donohue, and a doctor Green (who had two aluminum bodied corvettes in the race)
Sorry for the detour.
Sy told me that if I could nurse that woodie to NYC, I could use his Aston
anytime he was at the races. So, leaving Southport, would hustle up the Merrit Parkway full out under the low bridges in his perfect 1960 black on black Aston convertible. Great people, food ,drink and memories.
Thank you Sy!
Sir Stirling is very much alive and is in a TV advertisement for (I believe) Heineken. As he is leaving an establishment he is asked by a waiter if he’d like a Heineken – he repies — “no thank you, I am STILL driving.” Pure class all the way.
That is Jackie Stewart in ad!
Yes, it is Sir Jackie Stewart in the Heineken advertisement. I have met both at Pebble Beach in years gone by. Stirling was accommodating and didn’t mind a few questions whereas Jackie told me to not take his picture unless he gave me permission! I took them anyway with a telephoto lens.
I have no doubt that Aston-Martin records still exist and will definitely show who owned this car and when. About 25 – 30 years ago a friend had a 1969 DBS that was hit hard in the front end. The body shop contacted the factory to inquire about frame specs to rebuild it. In answer to his inquiry he received a package. Inside were the original factory blueprints for the car with a hand-written note explaining that these were the only set they had and would he be so kind as to make sure and send them back when he was done! Any car manufacturer who loans out original blue prints will darn well have ownership records for every chassis number they produced! As far as asking Sir Stirling Moss – the man may very well be up in his 80s but he’s as sharp and quick as ever, very polite, the perfect gentleman but without a chassis number or even the registration number plate how is he or anyone else going to tell one car from another?? I’ve spoken with him a number of times at Pebble Beach and an RM auction in Scottsdale.
I didn’t read anything here that was disrespectful of Sir Stirling….saying many people today don’t know or care who he is isn’t disrespect…it’s just the truth….many of our old heroes have been forgotten with the passage of time…it’s inevitable.
I agree with you Bill B, And then there are some people who take pictures without permission and think it’s O.K.
I should have asked him :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G9S2muwe_0
I have a bridge for sale that a number of Aston Martins have traveled across. I have photo documentation of these cars on this bridge. I am selling the bridge for $1, 375,000.00 dollars, U.S. currency. Please contact me at London-Bridges.net, if interested.
If you’re going to sell a car, take the time to take it out of storage, wash it, take dozens of QUALITY pics showing ALL aspects of the vehicle. If it has famous lineage, state that you have DOCUMENTED proof that will be provided with the car. If I had that kind of money, I wouldn’t bid a dime until you show me the documentation and it can be verified. This needs to sold at a reputable auction house. Reminds me of the guy who tried to sell a real Shelby Cobra he found in a storage facility to the Pawn Star guys. Worst way to sell a car EVER.
Actually BrianR, even if the seller had taken 100 professional photos and scanned and posted all the prior ownership records proving provenance, the man who buys it without a personal inspection is a fool. As far as “reputable” auction house – sorry to burst your bubble but there aren’t any! All the major auction houses are simply high class used car dealers who create and polish an image that doesn’t match the reality – fraud, shill bidding, insider’s buying cars cheap due to auctioneer’s shenanigans, completely false staged auctions with pre-determined results. Happens all the time, I suspect you’ve never really dealt with one of these auction companies. I’ve done business with them all, but I go into the transaction knowing I’m dealing with crooks and they know that I know that they’re crooks so we get along. I just don’t trust anything they say.
I forgot to add, not only are all the big auction houses crooks, so is one of the best known websites – I was a well known commentator on one until I rightly pointed out the blatant fraud and gross misrepresentation on a particular listing and King Randy, not being concerned with truth and integrity, kicked me off! So now all I can say is “Chinga Trailer” (yes, it means something appropriate in colloquial Mexican slang!)
Brian your input on Stirling is much appreciated. I hope other readers unfamiliar with him now can appreciate his place in auotomotive history.
I am still curious, and no one has answered the question- How does an association with a celebrity increase the value of a car? At the end of the day it is a 1958 Aston Martin and that is all it is. Connecting a name with a car is just another parlor trick to jack the price. Is there a sliding scale to determine how much to inflate the price by ? I’m going to guess Hitler would add a pretty penny to a car’s value. The Spice Girls not so much. And the Moss Fan Club should get a grip. The comments are not denigrating him and the UK. The comments are directed to the magical thinking trying to jack the price.
Value is ultimately just a psychological perception, and things become valuable simply because enough people with both the means and desire to own “agree” that they are worth such and such and back that up by buying at that particular price level. Let me ask you something – why would a particular Picasso painting be worth $100 million dollars yet a fake produced by a highly skilled forger, so well done that nearly 100% of the public and 95% of the experts are fooled, is only worth a few dollars? When you look at it logically, the physical makeup is the same – same canvas, pigments etc and even the aesthetic response it provokes in our mind is the same, yet the values are no way even close. Why is a Porsche Speedster now worth $300,000 yet 40 years ago when I was in college you could buy a runner for $1500 and a good one for $2500? Have the cars changed? No, it’s our perception that’s changed, and perception is a psychological process, an emotional response, not a logical one. We’re human beings, not rational beings and we deal with the world around us on an emotional level, and possessing something that belonged to someone we believe to be great or remarkable allows us the perception of a closeness or connection to that greatness. That’s why Stirling Moss’ old Aston Martin will always be worth more than one originally sold to an affluent nobody, even if the affluent nobody’s car is in better physical shape! Psychology, emotion, perception. If we were strictly logical, an old boring car like a Mercedes 240D that provides reliable inexpensive and safe transportation would be worth far more than a Ferrari GTO which will never be either reliable, safe or even comfortable when thought of in terms of a car’s real purpose – to get from here to there without killing ourselves or someone else, but we’re emotional beings and that’s why people will pay $35 million or $52 million for the GTO but a good 240D struggles to get $2500 anymore! Well, maybe that 240D would sell for a bit more if it had belonged to Stirling Moss or John Lennon or Elvis . . .
Frank, there is no rhyme or reason. Totally a “what the market will bare” premium. Several years back, I owned Buddy Lazier’s Formula Vee that he started racing with. At that time, the “street value” of that car was $3-4.000. I got $6.000 for it without the engine. Look at what Paul Newman’s cars are bringing…or Steve McQueen’s Porsche or XKSS – talk about premiums.
The same can be said for any car. Why is a D Type that won LeMans worth more than a D that never won a race?
Provenance
Provenance can be “critical” to the value of any car. If you owned a Cadillac owner by Elvis Presley the value goes way up, or an Aston Martin driven by Sean Connery in an early James Bond flick, the price goes Way Up. The major auction houses do a lot of leg work to ensure what’s claimed is accurate and true. They may make the occasional mistake but the are not crooks or liars as has been implied. The private seller is more likely to “exaggerate” claims on who once owned a car than a major auction house.
Slide down off the high horse for a moment and re-read the posts. No one is calling anyone a crook or a liar. The point being made is that a gullible buyer needs to realize that the celebrity association should be a minor “nice touch” to the entire package presented during a sale. The association in no way, shape or form should influence the value of the machine itself unless the vehicle is being purchased for display in some tourist trap “museum” or collection.
The point I made earlier in this thread, was a reaction to another commentor who said that the car needed to be consigned to a “reputable auction company” and all I tried to point out was that none of them are reputable despite carefully cultivated appearances. While it would be incredibly stupid for someone to try to make a false statement about Stirling Moss’ ownership of this Aston-Martin because it is so easily and nearly instantly confirmed (or disproved), all the auction houses engage in other disreputable behavior, always looking to screw the gullible, whether that person is a consignor or a buyer. All of them. Every single one. And while making blatantly false claims may very well work on eBay, it won’t at an event in Scottsdale, Pebble Beach or Retromobile and they’re too smart to try. But what does happen includes shenanigans such as shill bidding,pre-determined results (who will finally be the winning bidder and what they will pay), auction run orders are manipulated to produce the results the auction company wants, not what the consignor is lead to believe, cars get sold to “insiders” at artificially low prices and in some cases, the entire auction is fake, spectacular cars run across the stage for spectacular bids where at the end of the day no money changes hands at all, but great publicity is generated! Smoke and mirrors. Ultimately the best known auction companies are in reality just the same as the corner used car huckster or flamboyant televangelist preying upon people’s emotions and ignorance.
Nailed it.
Hi Peter,
You are right,I stand corrected.Some of you guys are a fountain of knowledge about some of the cars, I take my hat off to you. Facinating.
Best wishes to all contributors from rainy Britain
A restored Aston Martin DB2/4 Saloon sure is pretty to look at, More like the 5 than I knew: https://www.favcars.com/aston-martin-db2-4-saloon-by-tickford-mkiii-1958-1959-photos-146027
I think the car is super cool and I would love to own it, Even with or without Sir Moss Provenance. However as I never will reach that level of investment it is a mute point. I feel that the owner is being open in his listing and invited people to call him and ask questions which is more than I can say for half the ebayers up there. He is asking what he feel the car is worth, will he take less? Maybe he will. He may also know that this might be the only AM owned my Stirling Moss. Many previous posters have already pointed out that perception indicates value coupled with desirability. This is not a 70 Comet or a Yugo. Any historically famous person no matter what they did or if they were a good or bad person is going to command a premium in value. Especially if the item attached to their name can be proved and is already valuable to begin with.
As cool as Stirling Moss is, I would be more excited about a car belonging to Fireball Roberts. Why? Because I could maybe afford that. LOL. There is a pretty good chance that I could find you a nice car owned by Richard Petty or Dale Earnhardt it wouldn’t be a race car though. It would be a daily driver. LOL
No knock on Petty or Earnhardt but Stirling’s name as a previous owner on a AM DB 2/4 is in a different level when it comes to prices. Stirling is recognized world wide, the other names primarily in the US. They are both a credit to the auotomotive community never-the-less.
I gather that there is an ongoing debate, whether an association to a famous names dictates or has a bearing on the price? Off course it has! You couldn’t buy one of Paul Newman’s nascars on the cheap, could you now ? Here in britain the comedian Rowan Atkinson aka Mr Bean bought a Mc Laren F1 when first produced in the 90’s for around a million pounds was one of the few who could afford them, besides George Harrison’s wife off course, Mr Bean had a two accidents as these events are reported in all tabloid papers, but, the last accident in 2011 in my home county of Berkshire would’ve been written off by in insurers for any other make, it was reported by McLarens that the total bill was 900K pounds brought it back to prestine condition, a year or so ago was advertised ” McLaren F1 One careless driver” sold by Christie for 8mln pounds, because of the bumbling Mr Bean association. Hope it fetches a good price, best of british luck to both seller and potential buyer.