One of the reasons that I love this job is the sheer diversity of the offerings that come our way. Situated in Marion, Ohio, and listed here on eBay with a starting bid of $2,000 and only a day to run is one of the more unusual and under-rated little cars that I’ve ever see.
The Panhard PL17 hails from France and was built from 1959 to 1965. In reality it was a technological marvel, and we’ll get to some of that in a little while. In the meantime I have no doubt that some of you will be looking at the shape of this and scratching your collective heads. The body shape was designed to be as aerodynamically efficient as possible. This was essential because of the power source for this one.
The PL17 was powered by an 850cc twin cylinder, air-cooled boxer engine. With a power output of a mere 42hp it was never going to be a jet. Thanks to the advanced aerodynamics that little engine could push this little car to a top speed of 81mph. How good were they? In 1961 a Panhard PL17 actually won the prestigious Monte Carlo Rally….and to prove that it was no stroke of luck PL17s also finished second and third! Lurking in that cavernous engine bay is that mighty little engine. As the car is a front wheel drive, the 4-speed manual transmission is also in there somewhere.
This is another one of the quirky features of the PL17. This is the brake master cylinder. The reservoir for the master cylinder genuinely is made of glass. The engine though is a technological miracle with a few of its own quirky design features. These included high-domed light alloy pistons which were housed in cast-iron liners and the conrods had roller-bearing big-ends on a built-up crankshaft. These are also the only engines that I can remember off the top of my head where the valve springs aren’t coils, but are torsion bars.
The interior looks remarkably good. The door trims on those suicide front doors look nearly perfect. The front seat would benefit from a deep clean and there is some cracking around the spokes of the steering wheel. It’s hard to tell much about the rear seat, but from one of the photos in the ad it appears that the vinyl is badly perished along the top of the seat back. It is worth mentioning that with bench seats front and rear, a PL17 could legally seat 6 people in relative discomfort!
And still the quirkiness continues. I think that these tail lights are just fantastic. I can’t be certain, but I would be willing to bet that the lenses are glass, not plastic. This photo also reveals a hint of the biggest issue with this car: Rust…and lots of it. The seller is brutally honest about it. There are frame members that are rotted out along with the floor-pan and there is also some rot-through in the body panels, although they generally don’t actually look that bad to me. What this needs is a full restoration, which is going to be a huge job for such a small car.
So there it is. One of the most unusual little cars that you’ll ever see. It is quirky and any restoration would be a labor of love. But sometimes that’s what owning a unique car is all about.
Not knowing what part support is like would keep me from taking a chance on this one. Several years ago, I needed an exhaust gasket for a Chrysler slant six that took several weeks to track down right here in the US mid-west. Finding parts for this might prove to be a daunting task.
“Technological marvel” from the country that invented the Chauchat. Whoulda thunk it
Very avant-garde machine, parts are difficult, you will attract all kinds of attention from enthusiasts and the unwashed, very interesting. Thank you for this.
Lovely wee cars. There’s an active owners’ club and I’m fairly sure that they have some sort of spares scheme.
Plus it gives you an excuse to go to Retromobile and rummage around…
The valves also turn on themselves so they are always leak tight by being grinded.
The Honda CB450 introduced in ’65 also had torsion bar valve train.
See http://www.autoline.tv/journal/?cat=1513
The Last Panhard and the Genesis of Genesis
as a kid I rode in one of these. I was much more interested in his Austin Healy that he swapped a Buick 215 V8 and 4 speed into! It was awesome this one was ok. the guy also had a covair panel van with the rare drivers side rear door,
Bet I could put a Corvair 140 HP 4x1bbl in there—would do more than 81 mph then!
For the two years following Panhards 1- 2- 3 win of the famed and demanding Monte Carlo Rally, (1961) another tiny engined (under 1000cc) European car (but very different) won the same rally outright as well. This was the equally quirky and aerodynamically efficient Swedish built Saab 96, also sold across the USA. You just wonder how they achieved such Glory !.
Survivors of both Marques, more than 50 years on, really should be saved.
Front wheel drive and the hand break turn?
No handbrake turn Lawry – pbrake is on FRONT drums! Same with my FWD Citroens, which is why the Saabs would beat me in ice races on the frozen lakes of So. Wisconsin way back before Global Warming! That was back in the late ’60s when the lakes N, of Chicago would freeze way thick as it always got to 20 below ZERO F back then at least once a winter. The Saab drivers would honk on their pbrake, flip the rear out and take off!
The mechanics of this car also did great things at Le Mans powering various DB and CD sports cars to Index of Performance wins. I believe a fair amount of aluminium went into the build of the car, helping to keep the weight down.
These are remarkable vehicles. Spares not that hard, but would need to come from France, and it is true that a restoration would be a labour of love, rather than economically sensible.
My first thought when I saw the pic was, “Has Ed Iskenderian finally put his Panhard on the market?” I then remembered this his is a ’58 and took time to actually read the post. (cheeky grin)
He tried for years to get me to buy his one, without success…
Cool cars.
About 4 years ago a friend bought one with only 12,000 miles, a beautiful car. He paid about $5k for it. Over the last few years he’s been trying to find basic mechanical stuff like a carb or carb kit, brake parts. Even the French suppliers are at a loss to provide the parts he needs to keep the car running.
There were a couple in a scrapyard here some years back with the tiger stripe upholstery. Odd looking, but the more you look at them, the more neat details you find.
I love how that hood opens! You could really get into the engine compartment to work on it! Nice little car, good read on the history! I have seen these cars running around on the road when I was growing up!
Thanks for that Wrong Way. I try to make sure that what I put up is correct, especially for some of the more obscure cars. Sometimes I’m right, sometimes I’m wrong.
Given the difficulty of obtaining parts, I’d be tempted to restomod this one with a BMW motorcycle engine.
I saw a BMW R something with a Panhard engine in it!
BMW R1100s – oilhead 4v ones – are a popular conversion for 2CVs, so no reason why they shouldn’t also fit Panhards too. The Belgian 2CV racing regs allow oilhead 850s.
But are the pistons connected to the crank with Panhard Rods???
No, ‘cos it isn’t RWD…
This is really cool, kind of like an old Dauphine with bloated out front and back. I suppose you could redo it stock, somebody in Europe, I’m sure, has parts. Your credit card will probably get compromised a couple times in the process, but you’ll get your parts eventually. Probably best to go with a modern drive, as the styling alone will be the eye-catcher, although, under the hood is really the interesting part. The snow tires on the front seal the deal. French always had odd ways of holding the wheels on. With 4 adults, must have been a slow ride.
The model that won the Le Mans index of performance was the Deutsch Bonnet Le Mans Coupe. One of the greatest names ever for a car. When I was 14 or so, I saw a DB coupe at a repair shop. 50″ tall 1430 lbs .Porsche 356, 51 ” and 1870lb. Wheels were cast alloy.
I was in love until I found about the 850 cc, in the age of big blocks. Much later I owned a Hoda Z600 with less horsepower.
I was very lucky to hear about the yellow Panhard shown on “Autoline after hours” mentioned above by Al Carlson. I had been Dupont Plastics’ consultant to Chrysler on their CCV (Concept Car Vehicle) program to help them understand how to implement a plastic body with molded-in color to eliminate the 1/2 billion $$ cost of a paint plant, and saw the Panhard brought into their program by Bob Lutz – then Chrysler’s CEO – in their development center one day, but forgot about it after the program folded. Years later, a Chrysler friend told me the two study cars in the program were being eliminated, so I made them an offer and brought the car home. Having introduced John McElroy to Citroens back in 1999, he was interested in reviewing the history of the CCV program and knew I had this program study car, so we made the video last Thursday & had a fun discussion about the quirkiness of these forgotten cars.
Any reader interested in actually viewing the Panhards competing in the 1961 Monte Carlo Rally may do so by a Google search, with the words
“1961 Monte Carlo Rally” This is archived film from Pathe News transferred onto YouTube….many other archived films as well….some are silent most in black and white of course ! Great viewing nonetheless !
Had the fortune to see a black one at the Woodley Park French and Italian Car Show in Van Nuys CA one year.
What a treat that was.
Almost as good as the ride in a Trabant that a guy brought to a similar show in the same location.