Unfinished French Project: 1972 Citroen DS21

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The seller says they’re helping the 84-year-old owner sell this 1972 Citroen DS21 Wagon and it sounds like it isn’t quite as nice as it may appear from the outside. It’s definitely a project vehicle so I hope the next owner has a lot of patience and a good source for parts and pieces. They have it listed here on eBay in Encinitas, California, there is a $12,650 buy-it-now price listed and a current bid of $2,025, but the reserve isn’t met.

As a lot of us do, I went through the photos before reading the listing and was flabbergasted at how great this Citroen wagon looked in the photos. I even started getting a wild thought about maybe snagging my first Citroen, but after reading the description, I decided against it. A lot of you have more experience with restoring vehicles than I do so even though the buy-it-now price is less than half of Hagerty’s #3 good-condition value of $26,100, I’ll stick with motorcycles for now.

That design, though! The missing rear glass on each side is included, by the way, along with other parts that’ll be needed to put this French Humpty back together again. The seller says the left passenger door doesn’t open, the driver’s door latch isn’t installed, and the right rear door doesn’t latch. And there’s a big crack in the windshield. Jay Leno worked for a Citroen dealership as a young man and said that parts were hard to get in the 1970s, I can’t imagine searching for them now. Although, there wasn’t a (public) internet in the 1970s so maybe it isn’t that bad.

The interior looks great in most of the photos. The seats appear perfect, but the seller says they aren’t fully installed and there appears to be rust on the pan under the back seat, unless I’m not seeing that correctly. They say the floor pans are solid and can provide photos if anyone needs them. The rear cargo area is great and those two off-set seats look perfect. The car looks like it’s in primer in areas, such as parts of the interior and they say the exterior paint will need to be redone for anyone serious about restoring this car. There are several underside photos, the seller did a great job documenting this car.

The engine is as scary as it gets for most of us Yankees, it’s Citroen’s 2,175-cc inline-four with around 100 horsepower and 120 lb-ft of torque. Backed by a four-speed manual on the column sending power to the front wheels, they say it runs good, but on an auxiliary gas tank and fuel pump. Add that to the list. Also, there’s a leak in in the driver’s side hydraulic system somewhere, but it stays up for a long time, according to the seller. Are any of you up to the challenge of restoring this Citroen Wagon?

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Comments

  1. hat of pork

    10k should see this one right for the next decade for those who don’t wrench. Paul Heilig on the West Coast (Citroen Classics in San Diego) and Dave Burnham in Delanson NY (soon to become Trinity Restorations). There’s nothing like a Citroen Brake! Wish I had the space for it.

    Like 6
  2. Danilo E Gurovich

    OK. Looked at the pix on eBay. I’m doing a ’65 wagon right now, and it’s my 11th D model. Once sorted and put together, they make a terrific daily driver, and right now the market for them is EXTREMELY soft. $26k would buy you a sorted, #2 driver right now.

    Parts are plentiful. The best are from overseas, and the people in the US are just buying from them and passing to you, so you’re just adding time and paying two shipping costs. My favorites overseas are Citroen Andre, CitroTech, CitArt and CitroenClassics.uk. CitroTech has a great site and parts get here in 5 days or so. Shipping right now is pricy, prefer DHL.

    As far as the car goes, there’s a couple of things that stick out. First, the paint is wrong. The upper parts of the car are ALWAYS a rose grey (RAL7044). This includes the roof, back hatch, tail gate, metal around the side windows, and every piece of bare metal in the interior, including ALL of the body-side jams. Doors, fenders, hood and roof are all painted off the car to do it right. Anything not taken off that is bare metal is the aforementioned gray. I prefer to take all of the tailgate and rear panels off the car and powder coat them the correct color.

    I also saw a couple things that are disturbing. There are no carpets in the front, and there is a rust hole under the gas pedal. If you look just to the left towards the sill, there is a piece of sheet metal that is either riveted or screwed into the floor. This is NOT correct, and it is obviously hiding rust. I’d also pull the rear fenders – one bolt to do this found under the rear reflector. Also check the cavity under the rear occasional seats and along all of the inner sills. The outside can look fine, even underneath, but if standing water got in the interior it’s gonna be expensive.

    Make sure you have the air cleaner and associated connections. It also looks like the front hieght corrector may be a little leaky depending upon how long the car was running before that picture was taken. If it was awhile, I’d also check to be sure the rear spheres aren’t shot.

    If there’s rust in the sills, this is not an easy restoration. If you have to own it, No more than 5k. I paid 7200 for my 65 with no rust, running correctly and a straightforward restoration.

    Like 34
    • Richard B Kirschenbaum

      Thanks Danilo. I think I’ll stick with my ’53 ll BL (Traction) and my 75 Dyane. I’m 79 and have always regarded Ds as a career as opposed to another car to restore. Congratulations on having mastered them.

      Like 9
  3. wardww

    Too many people are unnecessarily scared by these. I’ve seen several restored and they are nowhere near as complicated as people are led to believe. Everyone from Wheeler Dealers to CarSOS have restored these and even The Car Wizard has has a sedan version that he bought from Tyler Hoover. Granted parts in the US may be harder to find but Europe and the UK is full of breakers yards and specialists stocked with parts and the cost of shipping is negligible. Even the hydraulic pressure vessels can easily be rebuilt in the UK. No point whinging that parts are not available in the US when a phone call across the pond can secure everything you need.

    Like 7
  4. Paul B

    There are parts sources in the US including Brad Knauss Citroen in PA, as well as multiple sources overseas.
    This car is priced high given the costs of restoration and how little is known about rust in its structure.
    It could definitely be refurbished into a good runner. But buyer beware at the outset. It will take time, energy, focus … and money.

    Like 5
  5. Neil

    Scott from Cold War Motors on YouTube has a great series on 1 of these.

    Like 5
  6. Car Nut Tacoma

    Beautiful looking car. I hope you’re safe from the wildfires in Los Angeles. That’s frightening! I’ve never seen a Citroën DS station wagon. I’ve seen pics of the car, but I’ve never seen one in person.

    Like 3
  7. KEN W NELSONMember

    This car as seen a lot of rust repair – left front wheel well has patch on vertical wall in front of the tire. Both top areas of the rear wheel wells between the top of inner walls and bottom of rear side window sills have been patched as condensation and rain leakage rot out the bottom of the side window frames. However, whoever patched these areas did a very neat job – its just hard to determine if rivets were used or mig welding. Either way can be quite strong if done well.

    Also, the left front floor behind the wheel well has been patched then sealed with white caulk, so can’t tell if its welded or riveted. Next, the right chassis box behind that wheel well is wide open, and it appears that the tilted chassis box wall has been removed and not patched. That area is critical to the bending strength of the car – convertibles frequently start folding up as they don’t have the roof frame to stiffen them! But if a new owner would weld in a continuation of that sill box forward to the firewall and weld that patch to the firewall, then replaced the angled outer wall as in the original structure to close that area, the chassis will be stronger than factory. This rusted area is the achilles heel of all Citroen convertibles.

    In spite of the patches, Citroens are fairly easy to make stronger than the original chassis, as nearly all of the patches are simple flat sheetmetal. Only right angle bends are often necessary, and these are easy to form. If an owner uses slightly thicker metal, and uses mig welding or lots of steel poprivets, they can be made more robust than factory!! Using galvanized steel with rivets can stop rust, but if mig is used, grind off all the zinc coating on both sides of the button weld locations, or continuous bead areas. Otherwise, the fumes from welding are toxic. Removing the zinc avoids this.

    I have personally sawed in half several DSs and used poprivets to put an entire rear end on a sedan. A close friend has also done the same, changing one sedan to a wagon! Sounds craze, but its a true story. In Europe, many replacement steel repair panels are not available, and considering the features of these cars, once you know them, youll realize they are very restorable and you’ll never find a car whose suspension is as amazingly comfortable unless you buy the horribly complex GM Magnaride car or others using electonic tricks to try to duplicate the supple ride of a Citroen DS or even the misunderstood 2CV!

    Like 7
    • KEN W NELSONMember

      My mistake – repair panels for lots of DS chassis and other areas ARE available in Europe. I had somehow said “not available” but that’s wrong.

      Like 5
  8. Covelo Hot Shot

    It is encouraging to read that sourcing the parts for these vehicles is no longer as daunting as it was a few decades ago. The internet and sophisticated, capable shipping and tracking methods apparently have allowed owning and keeping a Citroen in the USA a reasonable possibility. It was a lot harder to keep one when I was a fan and an owner of one fifty years ago. Delightful vehicles and the engineering is superb. Quirky, not like anything else.

    Like 6
    • Bob Morris

      So great to read your response! I owned an ID 19 in my college days in OH. It was an engineering dream back then. I think the Citroen SM with the V 6 is one of the best cars ever.

      Like 3
  9. matthew grant

    I had a new SM in 74 and it was a nightmare. new, breaking down, too complicated. love the car, but only if you are rich or know the product and can turn a wrench. otherwise, best from afar.

    Like 1
  10. chrlsful

    my earlier entry today was for a “car I’d not use, justa sale
    purchase”. Now this 1? “I CAN use it!” Known as “Wagonman”
    locally these fit for me as daily. However, now (due to age? just
    simply yrs behind the wheel?) I’d opt for auto transmis…

    The DS (’55/’75) is one of my fav.s The accouterments, frenchmen’s flair,
    engineering, etc have all ways grabbed my attention (since I saw 1st 1 sink
    @ stop light @ my ripe age of 13 ’65). “I’d look good in the safari.” Plus if having the 3 speed auto or 4 speed semi-auto I’d be more apt to choose it for use. W/a 6K$ margin here this one might “B it” for me… the ability to change my mind & not keep after a few months running – if only for the lack of auto (and distant location). Some 1 will enjoy~

    Thnx Scott !

    Like 1
  11. Bob Morris

    So great to read your response! I owned an ID 19 in my college days in OH. It was an engineering dream back then. I think the Citroen SM with the V 6 is one of the best cars ever.

    Like 3
  12. David Peterson

    The great Doug McCombs was an unapologetic enthusiast of these cars back when I was helping him build his house. They were only used cars in 1966, but had already become notorious. We all have quirks when it comes to cars – mine seems to be bathtub Hudsons – but aren’t we gear heads all the better for it? Every time I have shifted a four speed dash mounted shifter manual transmission I remember the small c controversy about push button Chrysler cars in the 1950’s, and try to apply the lesson to modern times. It never works. I’m thinking I am becoming more like Charlie Chaplin than the other one from Nash. Thank you again for the memory lane journey.

    Like 2
    • SubGothius

      Mention of the column shifter reminds me of this great line from a superb Automobile Magazine (now under the Motor Trend umbrella) article about driving a DS21 Chapron Decapotable (convertible) cross-country:

      “The mood even permeates the act of shifting – the reach from second to third is a distinctly dismissive gesture, as if you are waving the bellboy to take your luggage up to your room at Le Meurice and you are tired of boring people and their boring cars and mon Dieu, you want a glass of wine.”

      https://www.motortrend.com/features/1966-citroen-ds21-chapron-decapotable/

      Like 1
  13. Jimbosidecar

    I had a 1970 DS 21 wagon back in 1976-1978. It was such a comfortable driving car, the seats, the suspension… And it was great driving through the snow as I still made it to work during the Blizzard of ’78.

    Like 3
  14. Harrison ReedMember

    To hat of pork: I had no idea — and I live right near Delanson! Esperance, too, is not far away. I am north of those quiet places — but anyone travelling old Route #20 can reach them and/or drive through them (smile).

    Like 2
  15. hat of pork

    Glad the Cit experts chimed in on this one! Still not too daunting if you can wrench and/or weld (I’ve aged out of those options), and I hope someone sees the long term value of this car and is willing and able to commit (perhaps at a more realistic price).

    Like 0
  16. hat of pork

    It seems, based on Googlemaps, that I may have spoken too soon about Dave Burnham-I knew he was looking to retire but just assumed that he had found a successor. However, according to Google Maps he is “permanently closed”! What a bummer! I still think 10k is a reasonable ballpark number to bring this one back to driver quality. Hope it fits a good home.

    Like 0
  17. Robert Fouche

    You can see some rust holes and patches with screws holding it together. But this one is definitely in need of a eyes on inspection. And there’s a lot of body schutz underneath that can hide a lot of issues. But what I would like to know more about ais the other two cars in the background in photo number nineteen in the Ebay add. They are covered in plastic. Can’t believe nobody else spotted them.

    Like 0
  18. KEN W NELSONMember

    Robert, the car under plastic at front of the garage is an SM – can’t tell what the other one is –

    Like 0
  19. Scotty GilbertsonAuthor

    Auction update: this one made it to $6,155 and no sale.

    Like 0

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