Pontiac was covering both sides of the street in 1965. On one hand, they were pedal-to-the-metal with the sophomore edition of their mid-sized GTO, a car that was arguably a major ignition component of the muscle car movement. But at the same time, they hadn’t forgotten who brought them to the dance and kept a hand firmly placed on full-sized fun with their Catalina based 2+2. Today’s find, which is a 1965 Pontiac 2+2, is a real looker though it’s not original. But is it not original enough to hurt its value? Well, let’s look her over and decide. Calling Mamaroneck, New York home, this big Tin Indian is available, here on eBay for a current bid of $8,000 with the reserve not yet met.
The listing is light on details and the images are only fair at best. This is a long one, seventeen feet ten inches of wide-track wonder, riding on a 121-inch wheelbase. It’s wearing Fisher Body’s 1965 Coke-Bottle styling, a new and major redesign that Chevrolet, Oldsmobile, and Buick all utilized to some extent that year. It certainly did Pontiac well, keeping them in third place in the ’65 domestic production race with 802K units. The Cameo Ivory finish, topped off with a black vinyl top and held up by red-stripe encircled Rally II wheels projects an image of refined purposefulness. It’s not loud or brash but is stylistically serious. The finish, trim, and body panels present without concern.
There is only one image of the interior and it is of little value. It’s a black “Morrokide” (nice quality vinyl) environment with bucket seats and a center console, steered by a non-original tiller and that’s all I have for you. It’s a good lesson in how not to photograph the innards of a sale car.
Here’s where the debate starts. The original 338 HP, 421 CI V8 has been replaced by what is stated as being an “H.O.” 400 CI engine of unknown provenance. It could be a tightly wound ’60s version or a more flaccid ’70s variety that has had the cachet of the H.O. moniker erroneously attached – an inquiry, and some engine number decoding will need to be made. As stated in the title, you get to manually row the gears, all four of them, in this big-boy!
One interesting listing item, however, is the triple carburetor setup with intake, that is available – it’s not clear if it’s included in the sale – I’d vote probably not. I’m not up on what a complete Poncho three-deuce arrangement goes for but I’m certain that some of our Pontiac aficionados will have a good idea.
Great looking car! And it’s important as it’s one that marks the beginning of the end for full-size, factory hot rods. I can’t find any detractions, other than the entire matter of the motor, of course. What’s your thought, I’m sure the downgraded motor will have a downgraded effect on market price, but to what extent?
The 3 deuces won’t fit the later Pontiac heads, so that’s why it’s not on the car. Could have done better to drop a 455 in that engine bay, but if it’s all you have! No rev limiter then, over rev it miss a gear and a Pontiac doesn’t like it. Always liked these big Ponchos, drove a 68 drop top and rowing through the gear changes is something I still do today.
As long as it is a 65 or 66 tripower intake it will fit the later heads (except the 265/301)
Good call Fred. After I read the post that said it wouldn’t fit I immediately thought about the years of application. As I scrolled downward I then saw your post. I presently own a 65 GTO (had many, including early Firebirds), I’m 60 years old and have had Pontiacs and Pontiac power running through my veins, pretty much, my whole life. Thanks again 👍
Yep! I have a 66 Tri-Power on my 1970 Ram Air lll in a 65 convert. 1964 and earlier Tri-Power’s won’t fit the 65 and up.
I grew up with these cars all around me but never got into American car muscle. The one thing I always used to look for was whether it was a stick or not. There was something about these big cars with the third pedal that made them magical. The 60’s was a time for most older drivers that they were glad to not have to shift gears anymore thus the automatics seemed commonplace and boring ( to me). It certainly would be rush for me going through the gears in this one, no matter what engine is under the hood…………
Saw a big Catalina Convertible other day, looked inside, 👌 4 spd
I don’t see a/c
And where’s the 521
My neighbor had a 65 2+2 black with pearl white interior 421 tri power 4sp his brother had a 64 GTO 389 tri power 4sp my introduction to muscle cars I was 14 live both of them I had a 68 GTO
Like it a lot. The redline tires are a crowning touch imho. GLWTS
almost bought a 1966 2+2 late in the year it was a left over the 1967 where already out think they wanted almost $4000 no trade bought the new Corvette roadster 327 300 HP 4 speed for $4200 instead still regret it always loved the big Catalinas parents bought a new 1964 my last year in high school 389 2barrel auto convertible
Yeah but that Corvette will bring three times the price of that Catalina
Are these Ponchos much less desirable than Chevys now? That 1963 283 Impala roller that needs virtually everything went for almost as much as this (though granted auction ain’t over). And the resto-mod ’66 is going for many times this. I would think a 2+2 with a four-speed would be worth more but I admit the classic car market no longer makes any sense whatsoever to me.
I agree friend, I still say a lot of the nutso pricing on the old muscle cars is, at least in part, the fault of that big ol’ tent show, Jarret Backson… it’s gotten so bad that everyone who has a rusted out old hull with a bowtie, an arrow, or a pentagon on it thinks they have a golden ticket, and prices them accordingly. Boy I wish I knew how to do body work…
And Mecum
Another prime no no’s car. No numbers no doc’s no high prices. Depending on closer inspection. Private sale … Maybe 15k tops.
Classic car market needs a major reality check. Its the “Cool Fool” market. Let’s face it. These cars have a laundry list of issues most forgotten about. They ride so-so. Handel like a bucket of barf and pretty much any modern 4 cylinder will kick their ass for a fraction of the price. Plus get 40 mpg while doing it.
Yes but nowhere near as much fun to drive
Well said sir, I mean, which would you rather slide down into for a cruise, this big ol’ yacht, or a little sparkly rice grinder with a mad bee exhaust? Sorry, it’s a no-brainer for me… I say again, boy I wish I knew how to do body work, the county I live in is Full of barn finds that could be brought back to life with the right skillset.
If you are comparing the 2+2 to a 4 banger with good milage, and performance, you are missing the whole point of owning such a car.
A pontiac 2+2 that is original with the 421 and a 4 speed with documentation sold a 3 months ago for $84k, another sold 6 months ago for $100k. Obviously they were nice original rare cars that most people don’t even know about. This car is a good deal if you can find a non matching number 421 to go back in it. Write PHS and they will provide the docs.
Arguably the best looking big car of the ’60s. Wheels look right at home. May not be “right” but it’s still a looker.
Yes these are beautiful and fun to drive! My best friend had a 65 Grand Prix with 389 and factory 3 speed manual. It looked very similar but much cooler grill and the 8 lug wheels. It had a few aftermarket goodies including cam and would smoke the right rear tire until you let off the gas!
“Smoke the right rear tire” LOL
Nice Pontiac – The Car and Driver Test of a 65 2 + 2 Catalina 421 HO Tri-Power 376 HP Prepared by Royal Pontiac 0-60 3.9 sec. vs a Prepared 65 Ferrari V12 0-60 6.9 sec is one of coolest – they said you could hear the Catalina from blocks away :)
Hard to beat the sound of a Poncho @ WOT …. Ain’t no 4 popper can sound like that …. Even if you add Fart Mufflers
🤣🤣
Sorry I hit “report comment” by accident 🤣 Hope they can take a joke. Anywho, THREE POINT NINE seconds zero-60 mph?? You sure about that? That’s modern car time and I can’t even begin to imagine that, but you say it’s in a CD issue. I’d like to see that!
That 0-60 stood the test of time, but like baseball and juice it wears an asterisk. Everyone knows that it was prepped by Royal Pontiac. The car was a ringer and nowhere near stock. Must have been a handful.
Wow!!… Super clean ride…
I would stuff it full of modern LS
Power and a 6l80 trans and some
411 gears,, 4 wdb and cruse the power tour across ‘merica…
Ah, this one brings back the old memories. My 65 Impala SS had the same white body with a black vinyl top with the 396 engine (however mine was automatic to save on insurance), and my neighbor down the street had one that looked pretty similar to this one. We often would argue which car was the best (of any category), but the one definite winner was my key would fit his car, but his key wouldn’t fit my car 😊 He was an Aggie, I wasn’t (so that made me 2 up)… lol… actually Aggies are pretty good guys, we in Texas made fun of the Aggies for a lot of years. However a joke that popped up later was “what do you call an Aggie after 10 years?” Boss.
I remember the days of few keys. Three of us friends had 56, 58, 59 chevys and all the keys were interchangeable. we would catch each other on dates and move their cars, but stayed to watch the reactions.
The magazine test cars during that era were complete ringers that you couldn’t hope to replicate in your street car. This included putting 421s in GTOs. So I’d say we should take that one with a grain of salt!
Had a 65 with the 421 Tri power automatic back in the day. Painted it with a rough nap roller and brush (textured the paint) plus that was all I had to work with. Finally threw a rod, too young and dumb to fix it. Still miss that car.
Dave 65 w/421 tripower must have been a beast…
A little off subject but not far…
I have a 1967 G.T.O. With a 455 S/D
“Super Duty” Balanced and Blue Printed
4:11 posi. CHECK THIS💣
6500 RPM’S side step the clutch. and all
I see is headlights and tire smoke my rear view mirror and the smell of rubber burning
G.T.O.
Grand
Turismo
Omalagoto 👈🏽 I Think that’s the correct spelling… LOL
The tire people love you
What an absolutely beautiful car. And a four-speed to boot which makes it just that much better. Since it’s not numbers matching I would throw some modern suspension underneath it and drive it like I stole it.
These are beautiful cars and very nice to drive. They were a big improvement over the 64s, which I still have a Bonny convertible 64. I haven’t driven it in quite a few years but I have a 65 Catalina 2 door post with a 389 4 speed with a 3:42 posi that I drove for a few years back in the early 90s. That car rolled well, would smoke the tires and had rather nice get up and go for a big old heavy car loaded down with ac, power seats and tons of other options. This one is a real looker here. A really lousy interior shot but I don’t see and power accessories or the giant chrome tachometer like mine has. Nonetheless this will make someone somewhere quite happy.
“Smoke the right rear tire” LOL
I had: ’63 white/red Bonneville convert, “59 red/red Bonneville convert, ’64 GP, ’67 GTO…
Remember them fondly
“Smoke the right rear tire” LOL
I had: ’63 white/red Bonneville convert, “59 red/red Bonneville convert, ’64 GP, ’67 GTO…
Remember them fondly…
BTW, taking about the”Tin Indian” I lived in Akron, OH 1 block up behind Knafel Pontiac home of the “Tin Indian”
My neighbor Bob has a 65 2+2, red with black vinyl roof and bucket seat with consul interior. His has the 421 tri power with 4 speed and the 8 lug wheels. What a Beautiful Car. Try all I can, he won’t let me take it on a cruise nite.
What a nice looking car! I really like the 65 over the 66 although similar body styles i like the nose on the 65 much more. Who cares if it’s not numbers matching can’t you see the cool / fun factor here? Big muscle 4speed bake the tires Detroit iron that isn’t meant to be a trailer queen, if this doesn’t make you want to jump in and do a nasty burn out your just not a red blooded American gear head. Just sayin…
Awe, breaks my heart. Had a 65 2+2, 421, 3 duces, 4 speed, Red with a Black vinyl top. I headed to Alaska to work on the pipeline and my Mother sold it for 75$ cause she was tired of it sitting in the driveway. I could have cried cause it was and still is my favorite car. If I kept it at 65 or less I would get 18 mpg. Big heavy car would lite em up and beat anything off the line for a few hundred feet. Smoked my buddies Superbird with a 440 auto.
Made it to 19K, Reserve Not Met.
Had a 65 convertible. 2+2 with 421 Tri power, 4 speed 4:11 rear ratio. Wish I had it back but that is water under the bridge
Wow 421 tri power nice…
Water under the bridge, I feel for you.
I have a 67 G.T.O. With a 455 SD Super
Duty engine out of a 1980 Trans Am…
I still own both car’s. Check this…
6500 RPM’S side step the clutch and
BAM. All I see after my tire smoke clears
Is headlights in my rear view mirror,
One Head light OUT Because it was a
Mopar… LMFAO 😂
love 1967 gtos had friend with a stock 1965 gto 389 4 speed single 4 barrel used to race him almost daily back in 1968 he never could win I would take him by half a car length everytime I had a 1968 Torino gt fastback 390 4 speed it was quick