Any surviving muscle car is a treat, just like this 400 V8 Ram Air III stick shift Firebird! Having passed hands a few times it’s past, this numbers matching ready to drive survivor is a great looking car, but does have a few minor details to be sorted. With the engine recently being rebuilt, this great looking machine is offered for $38,800. Check out this muscle survivor here on eBay out of Wylie, Texas.
Clean and crisp under the hood, this Pontiac appears virtually showroom new. The factory numbers matching V8 is thought to have been rebuilt by the previous owner 5,000 miles ago. Taking a close look, the engine is certainly clean and the paint on the block appears to be reasonably fresh. Beyond the great appearance, this 400 cubic inch V8 mated to a 4 speed is sure to be a fun drive. One thing I do want to point out is that there is minor surface rust on the underside of the hood. Otherwise there only looks to be minor corrosion on the wiper motor assembly.
Much like the engine bay, the interior is sharp and tidy with only a few minor flaws to make mention of. First and foremost let me say that the dash and center console is gorgeous. Although make no mistake, the interior is as a whole is grand. The driver side seat piping is worn towards the bottom of the seat back, and at the top of the seat back. One other minor concern is that the carpet is a little faded, but still appears to be in very nice shape. The last concern is that there looks to be some paint chipping issues along the bottom of the door jamb, though there does not appear to be any rust.
For me, this Firebird is a dream car in the making checking so many great check boxes. I am a fan of the green exterior, and the vinyl top doesn’t hurt my feelings as it breaks up the cars appearance giving some contrast. Although the lovely green paint has aged nicely, this survivor at some point had its front fenders replaced due to rust concerns. So the front fenders have been paint matched to the car, but thankfully it is not evident from the photographs. Easily the worst thing about this Firebird is the minor rust and early onset of rot developing around the rear wheel arches. Although a “perfect” car would be a wonderful thing, I would delegate this machine to nice weather cruises and maintain its current condition. Is this Firebird your dream come true?
Ok I am going to get the ball rolling here. Nice car, pretty cool. I am a big Gen 1 Firebird fan, have had a few. I am looking for someone one with more knowledge than me to confirm my suspicions. Only asking to protect the buyer. This is a dealer making some claims. Just sayin.
If a RA III car, where is the Air Cleaner and the Hood Plate?
Engine color does not look right for a 69, it is too dark, that is a later like 1975 color. I just finished a bunch of research for a 1975 and that is the color they used in that year. Should, in my opinion, be a lighter metallic blue.
Someone once corrected me that ALL 67-69 Firebird 400 Cars have the Rubber Arrowhead on the center of the front bumper. This does not have one.
That booster can’t be original. No big deal.
This car has much bigger rust issues that what meets the eye in my opinion and I am a Rust expert AND I have restored 3 of these, 2 with Illinois rust/salt.
Otherwise pretty cool looking car…. IF, IF it is legit. Either way the 38K is money you see in a Barrett Jackson dream…..then you wake up.
By the time you can see it, it’s bad.
I have always liked 1969 Firebirds. This being a Ram Air car. I like it a lot more. There looks like a lot of rust in the lower rear quarter panels. This bird deserves a full resto
At an asking price of nearly $40,000 US (over $50K CDN), I don’t want a car with ANY rust issues, missing pieces or worn interior trim. This car is a nice starting point, though, at maybe $25,000.
Engine color looks fine. The only thing wrong with this car is the PRICE! Family owned 3 or 4 1969 Firebirds but I don’t think any one of them had the center V on the front grille. It was on all chrome grilled 1967-68s though. One of the rear photos of this car make it look like a repair was done to the back taillight panel, certainly the rust back there could foreshadow some major expense for the next owner. And why do generations of Firebird owners feel all four corners must be raised? These cars came from GM low to the ground and this one in green with a vinyl top deserves to have those wheels fill the fenderwells.
My point is NOT that the color looks fine, my question is does it look CORRECT? The answer for Pontiac 1969 is I don’t think so. Again, if there is an expert out there that can nail this one down for me that would be great.
Good catch – not much air rammed with that snorkel-style air cleaner…
Thanks Dave. A Ram Air III Car is going to have a open air cleaner base with a lid over the element only with a plate attached to the hood that closes over the air cleaner thus “ramming the air” in.
Find a picture of a 67-ish GTO with Ram Air which were rare but more common….it should look like that.
I am sorry but I am having a hard time with this car. When the owner swapped out the front fenders maybe it was a “bit more than that” and he swapped out the entire nose, using a regular non-400 car front clip, therefore the original Rubber Arrow Head emblem is no longer there? There were holes in the bumper to bolt it on so it is just not “missing”. This front bumper is not off a 400 car.
Again, I have owned a fully documented 1967 Firebird 400 and I have restored 2 1969 Firebirds that were NOT 400 cars. I was 3 years old when this car was born. I don’t profess to know it all but i know a lot about Gen 1 Firebirds and the car is just not lining up for me. I have not run the number to see if it is a RA III or that it even VIN matches the car which it should being built after 1968 when GM Vin matching started.
Old dealer trick get buyer thinking about the options rather than the condition.
I’d personally like to see any of the web sites that advertise cars for sale force the seller to put up the VIN numbers and block numbers to back up claims of authenticity. Not saying this car isn’t legit, air cleaners and valve covers were tossed away by more than one owner in the past, but if this was my ride, I’d be posting nice big pix of pertinent numbers to entice a buyer, instead of leaving people wondering…..just my 2 cents……….
http://musclecarfilms.com/1969_Firebird_400_identification.html
I agree Ted, maybe we need some version of carfax to authenticate vintage cars…?
If no rust and authentic, this would be a dream car…
not too crazy about the stance/lift either.
This wheeler dealer obviously doesn’t have a clue about this bird, but THINKS he does. Not original and most definitely NOT worth anywhere near what he’s trying to get for it. But, in the words of P.T. Barnum, “There’s a sucker born every minute!” Anyone pays out that much (or even remotely close) for this thing, deserves what they get.
Why wouldn’t you show the PHS documentation? It’s being sold as a Ram Air III, yet is missing the Ram Air induction parts. The elevated price is dependent on documenting the car, there is no better place than in the ad.
Steve R
Follow the link to the dealer’s website and you can see the PHS documents. I am as clueless as the rest of you about this car. Looks like a car that took a front end hit a while back and had a partial restoration to me. Floor pans and front clip look a whole lot better than the quarters.
To have the Ram Air III engine when new it was not necessary to have the RA induction parts.
True, but then it was a 400 HO car and not a Ram Air III car. The concerns expressed in the earlier comments are spot on.
I really like this car, like the vinyl top, and love the paint color and interior. I hate the raked stance, but that’s easily remedied. The rust in the rear quarters completely invalidates the asking price, though. If solid, maybe, to the right buyer. But as-is, only half that, if not less.
Whoa this is a nice car! If it was mine I would drive it on a limited basis maintain it’s condition and enjoy the crap out of it! LOL
Did anyone else notice the stain on the passenger side grille opening? Looks like something in the engine bay puked oil from the inside out. This is a good Firebird, but not $40k good. Still lots of manual 3 and 4 speed cars with no air out there with just as much rust around the rear wheel wells.
Isn’t Collins Brothers (Dennis) a pal of Ass Monkey Richard Rawling ? Nice car but not worth the $$$$ with the ru$t issues.
Yes, and all of his “great” finds are overpriced.
@Ted and Tom
Looks like someone tried very hard to get a first gen registry off the ground:
http://thefirstgensite.com/ramair68/gen1home.html
The rust in the rear wheel openings. And you can’t see what’s behind it which means cut and replace. Don’t care about the engine color all that much, at least it’s not GM corporate blue like I see way to much of. Personally. I’d never drop $35k on something that was going to need inner and outer wheel arch replacements if you’re lucky that’s all it needs.
Nobody recognizes the seller as Dennis Collins from Gas Monkey?
I did @ 10:37 AM.
All 400 1st gen Firebirds has the rubber arrowhead on the front bumper. The previous poster.that said he owned several without the arrowhead either didn’t own a 400 car or the bumper was replaced as aftermarket replacement bumpers don’t have the holes for mounting the arrowhead.
That was me. And yes, only 1967 326/auto, 1969 350/4sp, 1967 OHC Sprint 6, 1969 350/auto, 1969 OHC6/3sp but never owned a 400 until my 1974 Formula. Never jacked them up and always added Pontiac rally II wheels if they didn’t already have ’em. The 67 Sprint even had redlines from the dealer!
HI DougC, I think you might be referring to my comments. You are 100% correct on your technical comments.
If you re-read my post I said I owned a documented 67 Firebird 400 convertible with the Arrowhead on the bumper.
I restored 2 69 Firebird’s that were NOT 400 cars and therefore did NOT have the arrowheads and had a front chrome bumper that looked like the one on this car with a solid Chrome center (no holes).
I pointed this out so it could be noted that something, many things, about this particular car do NOT line up.
Just clarifying that I do know what I am talking about as your post eludes to the fact that I don’t and don’t know what I had when you said “said he owned several without the arrowhead either didn’t own a 400 car or the bumper….”
This is not a personal attack, just a correction. I try to be as knowledgeable as possible to, as many of us on this site, are trying to be helpful and share the knowledge that we do have for prospective buyers. I have been working on classic cars for 35 years and love to learn. I learn a lot from the readers & contributors of BarnFinds. If I am not 100% sure I usually state that I might be wrong and please correct me if I am. This is not one of those times. Please read more thoroughly before you comment. My post could not have been more clear. My comment in life is that my biggest enemy is that “I don’t know, what I don’t know”. And we all have information we have gathered over the years that we thought was correct when indeed it is incorrect because we gained it from a “reliable” source that was not so reliable apparently.
Tom, I’m pretty certain he was referring to me. I posted this morning that all of my family’s various 1st gen FBirds weren’t 400s and therefore didn’t have the center V on the beak. All great cars nevertheless.
Now… is anyone from Barnfinds going to fess up and say they bought this ‘bird for $38k and change?
Another Jeep trade in of the inheritance.
I’d hate to see what the top option Ram Air IV would sell for nowadays! Some of these early ram air set ups really didn’t work too well, not just Pontiac but other brands as well, so I could see the original air cleaner being tossed in a vintage trash can years ago, engine was rebuilt and maybe it did get repainted the wrong color, sits too high sits too low, whatever. It’s a cool old ‘bird..
..it’s the price that’s upsetting everybody here, not necessarily the car itself, understandably as that’s a lot of money!
I picked up on the Seller. What struck me was how tweaked the brake pedal is. Has anybody who has owned one of these First Gen Firebirds dealt with the same issue before? I think the rust on this is far worse than meets the eye.
Ditto RD on those pedals…that’s really screwed up (and possibly not functional), maybe it was a stick conversion? I’d like to see what it looked like when he got it.
For $38k and counting, I would have redyed the seatbelts and added new pedal pads. Sewn up the loose piping on the driver’s seat. This isn’t survivor grade any more with the whole front end replaced and repainted.
This car has the 400 HO. It does not have Ram Air and did not come from Pontiac with Ram Air. To be a real Ram Air car you must have ordered both the 400 HO engine and a separate option to get the open scoops and air cleaner pan. And no, Pontiac never called that engine “Ram Air III” either.
Barn find ? Nope
There was no 400 HO for Firebird in 69. The standard engine was 330 HP. Optional was the L74 RA III rated at 335 HP and the L67 RA IV rated at 345 HP.
Sorry but you are incorrect. Pontiac never called any engine “Ram Air III.” That was applied much later by press and enthusiasts to denote the 400 H.O. with outside air induction. The 335 HP rated L74 was called “400 HO” by Pontiac. “Ram Air” induction was an option on that engine.
Just look at the ’69 Firebird brochure: http://thefirstgensite.com/html/69brochure1.html
or here
https://paintref.com/cgi-bin/brochuredisplay.cgi?year=1969&manuf=GM&model=Firebird
or here
http://www.lov2xlr8.no/brochures/pontiac/69fireb/69fireb.html
or here
http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Pontiac/1969%20Pontiac/1969_Pontiac_Firebird_Brochure/dirindex.html
Sorry but you are incorrect. Pontiac never called any engine “Ram Air III.” That was applied later to denote the 400 HO with outside air induction. The 335 HP rated L74 was called “400 HO” by Pontiac. “Ram Air” induction was an option on that engine.
Just look at the ’69 Firebird brochure: http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Pontiac/1969%20Pontiac/1969_Pontiac_Firebird_Brochure/dirindex.html
Ok Steve. You’ve done your homework. Did you buy this car or do you already have one?
Actually am hunting for a ’68 Tempest Sports Coupe for a project, unless I stumble across my brother’s old ’71 GTO first.
BTW didn’t mean to double post above, but the first one with multiple links disappeared after I posted it so I re-posted with just a single link.
A peddler of Jeep parts. That makes him an expert on Pontiacs?
Is it just me, or does the front look lifted too? Maybe I have just paid attention to the ones where the front has been lowered?
Does anyone know whether this car ever sold and if so at what price?