Silver Fox: 1969 Chevrolet Camaro Garage Find

Update 2/13/20 – After getting bid up to $29,600 this Camaro is back on eBay for some reason.

From 1/22/20 – It turns out the longtime owner of this 1969 Camaro called it the “Silver Fox”. I would say the same moniker might work for him as he decided to sell the car as he now has “different visions in life.” Whatever the reason for selling, I’m glad he did such a good job of preserving this beauty! It’s located in Las Vegas, Nevada and is listed for sale here on eBay at no reserve.

As you can see from this picture, the car has now been cleaned up and prepared for sale. The seller states that they cannot verify that it is a real Z28, and after doing some research, I’m afraid they are correct. 1969 Camaros built in the Van Nuys plant (as this car was in the second week of March, 1969) have no indication on their trim tag or serial number as to whether or not they are an actual Z28. We’re told that while this car has a 302 cubic inch engine as a ’69 Z28 should have, it’s not the original one so that doesn’t help. If you are the lucky buyer, as far as the world is concerned it will be a Z28 unless you clarify the situation as I would. Regardless, it’s a beautiful car!

1969 Camaros look particularly good to me from this angle. With more of a “coke-bottle” shape than the earlier cars and a visually wider stance, they somehow look more powerful without the fastback of the second-generation cars. We’re told this car has no rust at all and the pictures, while not particularly detailed, appear to support that claim. The Cortez Silver paint looks great to me (and is the original color for the car) although the seller states it could use a new paint job at some point.

If anyone finds out different information than I did from the cowl tag, please let me know. If you are wondering, the J542 code means that the car was scheduled to be the 542nd car built on the 10th working day of the month.

The interior is said to be original although the carpet looks somewhat ill-fitting as if it were replaced. It’s nice to see a dash without cracks!

The engine presentation lets the car down a little, but some cleanup could be both fun and rewarding. The seller tells us that the engine starts right up and runs well, but they do mention some fine-tuning needed to make the car a daily driver (would anyone actually do that now?) and that the car will need tires (understandable considering it has sat for 15 years). Can any of you experts out there tell us if this is a real Z28 or not?

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Comments

  1. al8apex

    c
    l
    o
    n
    e

    13
    • jerry

      so who cares! its a dam car ! drive the thing and enjoy it! if you are buying it to make a pile of money off it go play in the stock market! we had a fellow truck driver at work who had a mercury cyclone spoiler with a 429 4 gear in it drove it year round! people used to get on his case about it! his responce like travel? like sex? well you can finish his answer! my car and I am going to drive the dam thing!

      35
    • MoePoe

      Based on what evidence? I agree that it might not be legit, but I don’t know that we have enough evidence to conclusively call it a clone.

      Plus, at $30K sold, it’s a good deal for a rust-free ’69 Camaro, Z/28 or not.

      6
      • al8apex

        MoePoe

        It is a wanna be look alike (more like look similar) based on the fact it has mono leaf rear suspension plus all the other items already pointed out

        or scroll through and read all the posts I’ve made throughout this lengthy discussion

        I know these cars … have owned over 70 of these since 1973 …

    • MoePoe

      al8apex, again my point is $30K is righteous money for any rust free V8 Camaro, clone or not.

      1
  2. PL

    clone

    7
  3. dj882000

    yessir. 100% REAL……CLONE. Look at all the parts that are oversprayed silver under the hood. All I needed to see.NOT ORIGINAL PAINT.

    4
    • Jb

      Well, if you READ the story it painfully states NOT ORIGINAL PAINT!

      23
    • MBorst

      So, it is original color ! Someone didn’t take the time to cover the wheelwells or it could be just DUST ! You don’t know. Like they say, that time period, GM didn’t distinguish one package from the other on the serial numbers ! Could have been they didn’t want them distinguished in the future. I have a friend that built the perfect CLONE back in 78. Only didn’t paint an original color. It sure looked great and ran great. Head Turner’s are what most people want. This is definitely a head turner ! And you claim you’ve owned 70 of them ! Must be a salvage yard owner.

      • al8apex

        this is just a look alike, a poorly done one

        I owned so many (not a “salvage yard owner”) as I was a fanatic and had about 8 or 10 at one time, for whatever reason, my late 70’s self wanted one of every color and I had a big backyard … cooler heads prevailed and I got down to just one, then none (but kept my 70 Z28). Over the years from my fanatic days (a friend and I ran “wanted” ads in the Phoenix paper and were buying a couple a week or so and fixing them up and selling them). I did own a Z10 Pace Car hardtop, my Z11 L34 Pace Car convertible, a 67 Pace Car 4 speed small block and my Endura bumper 69 RS F41 4 speed convertible for quite a while though. One by one they were sold or traded (traded the Z10 for a 69 Z RS) until I got married and sold the 69 RS convertible to make room in the garage for my wife’s 86 Mustang GT 5 speed. ahhh, the crazy days of youth …

        1
  4. Dustin Lisner

    it has the wrong master cylinder, missing the bumper guards and that Z28 badge on the grill is also way off, its a clone.

    7
    • Tom

      Bumper guards were an option on most 69 camaro’s. As other’s have stated, buy the car for what it is. A small block with headers, 4 speed and a decent body (I would never buy car sight unseen). Another indication is the redline on the tach. Honestly, I prefer non original cars, much cheaper to buy.

      14
      • Al

        Exactly that, I could care less how original they are as long as look nice, run strong & overall mechanically sound & tight. Numbers match are great if you just want to wash, wax & cover till the next weekend. I just want to drive it like I stole it. Kind of like when I rent cars lol.

        16
      • Buck Neccid

        “But it’s not matching numbers!” Heck, 2/3rds of all buyers couldn’t tell you what matching numbers means anyway, they have just heard it needs matching numbers. Regardless, I’ve never tried to fool someone about matching numbers or originality. I’ve had people pass on a car because I told them it wasn’t original to that car. I’d added courtesy lights from a more upscale model, and because it wasn’t original to THAT car, they didn’t want it. That’s fine…. go ahead and check the numbers while I’m driving it down the street, enjoying it the way it was meant to be.

        5
  5. TimM

    Clone or not it’s a small block 4 speed car in reasonable good condition with out holes in it from rust!!! Take the badging off and you got a decent ride!!!

    41
    • Steve R

      That’s right, if it stays anywhere close to the current bid it’s a good value. People lie or exaggerate all of the time, especially if it fits a narrative, just like some of the posts above.

      Steve R

      20
      • Dave

        In a recent court case in Pennsylvania, involving a retirement home, the judge ruled in favor of the nursing home, stating that in advertising a certain amount of “puffery” was to be expected and was acceptable. The legal system is the original 50 shades of grey, as words get twisted to fit the purpose.

        6
  6. matthew B steele

    Clone or not I wish it was mine I love the 69 Camaro

    28
  7. redwagon

    Well the old fox comes right out in the ad and says it:

    I CANNT VERIFY THAT THIS IS A TRUE Z/28 CAR SO IM GONNA SAY ITS A CLONE

    That seems pretty honest and straightforward.

    Also this about the engine:

    THE ENGINE IS NOT ORIGINAL TO THE CAR BUT THE CASTING NUMBERS COME OUT TO BE A 302

    I would still want to verify the casting numbers and the numbers on the heads. Again he seems to be straightforward and truthful.

    There are some things that indicate to me the car may be a recently assembled vehicle. The carpet is almost new and lumpy, the right side is missing the marker lights, body lines on the right door and rear quarter don’t line up properly, seems to be some rust coming through a quick spray paint job on the master cylinder. Those are all things to be asked about. If you get a straightforward answer that for the good.

    Take all that into consideration and then make a decision on what’s it’s worth to you. Then make your offer. Dicker and deal if you must.

    Personally I like the idea that it’s a clone. It should come cheaper and I would not be as afraid to drive it.

    49
    • Bob S

      Thank you redwagon, the seller makes no claim that it’s a z, period! Please read the article for what it says, not for what you interpret it as before you call someone a liar or a scam! The article also says it’s original COLOR, not paint! I wish the 🦊 good luck!

      36
      • Ron

        Bob S, reread redwagens post, he is pointing out that the seller is being up front about the car likely being a clone. No need to lecture him on reading the ad…

        6
      • A Kepka

        Trolls actually cannot read. You expect too much. As is anything you must remember when on the wild wild web… truth is only as deep as the commonsense of who is willing to believe it.

        4
      • Bob S

        Ron, by saying “thank you redwagon “ I was in complete agreement with him!

        4
    • moosie moosie

      I see marker lights on the right side, front and rear, that right side door looks a bit off at the front where the crease in the fender and door look a bit off. The only issue I have with the car is the people bidding on it as if it were a bonafide ’69 Z/28 which the seller even states it is probably not. Yep, they coulda used a better steering wheel then that Vega one which was also used for one year on the Corvette.

      2
  8. RobB

    Where is the original steering wheel?

    2
    • Louis

      Looks like it could be off a Vega but not a 1969 Z 2

      2
  9. Scott 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

    This is a fake , at least a clone would try to have the details in the right places what is that steering wheel from? And numerous other things others have mentioned

    3
    • A Kepka

      As if most trolls here could even afford it if it was real

      12
  10. JOHN

    It has issues, but to me the owner is up front on everything. But overall, a clean, straight, apparently rust free 69 Camaro 302 4 speed car looks pretty good to me at this point. Ditch that late 80’s truck steering wheel first thing, move the Z/28 grille emblem to proper location, get a side mirror, and the rear bumper guards and call it your Z/28 clone. Fill the tank and enjoy it! I would love to have that engine in my mid-engine Corvair…

    18
  11. 86_Vette_Convertible

    Clone or not, still looks pretty good to me. Have to see what it eventually goes for. I’d like to know what’s under the tarp in the garage picture.

    6
  12. George Mattar

    No rear Bumper guards. Fake

    1
    • JohnD

      Did they have to have bumper guards? Thanks!

      1
      • al8apex

        yes, all 67-72 Z28’s had the optional rear bumper guards standard

      • Mimo

        Optional standard?

        11
      • al8apex

        Yes, the optional rear bumper guards were standard on the Z28’s from 1967-1972

        2
      • Lynn Member

        Yes. The real z sat lower so the bumper guards were necessary to make the bumpers line up with other vehicles. Another place to look is the staggered rear shocks. It would take a lot of work to change that if the originals weren’t staggered

      • al8apex

        sadly, Lynn’s response is erroneous

        The rear bumper guards have NOTHING to do with ride height

        the rear shocks were staggered on EVERY 68 and up Camaro

        6
  13. Will Fox

    Wow….never read from so many `69 Camaro experts on one site in my life. You guys all missed your true calling!

    41
    • PaulG

      Agree Will, like they didn’t bother to read the ad before bashing the guy…
      Decent 69 Camaro BTW

      33
    • Tom

      I do not know where lynn gets his information, but he has his opinion. If this Camaro has a 10 bolt, which I can’t deny or confirm, then is not a performance option. Since we are not drag racing here, no big deal. I would not kick this Camaro out of my garage. If its really rust free, buyer saves money and frustration.

      2
  14. Mike1955

    I see nothing misleading or dishonest in the ad. Got to be careful dismissing “real” cars because of small items like bumper guards, emblems and paint. A lot happens in 50 years. Wrecked cars were often repaired with what was available from the junkyard.

    18
  15. dave

    All of the bipartisan banter aside, it’s still a good car!

    12
  16. FordGuy1972

    Taking into account all of the above comments, it all boils down to a rust-free ’69 Camaro in good condition with a desirable drivetrain. I’m not a fan of clones and I’d remove all the Z/28 emblems and be happy with it being a non-matching numbers car. The prior paintwork was really poor with poorly masked off door jambs and that steering wheel is as ugly as sin. However, it should be a fun car to drive with the 4-speed and should handle fairly well without the weight of a big block pushing the front end around. It’s obviously not a Z/28 so bid accordingly.

    4
  17. Mark

    This is ridiculous. Even the overalls are trying to tell a story! Bet whatever’s under that cheap silver paint job has a story to tell too..

    2
  18. Mark

    I think the owner was clear enough. Regardless, I might be in the minority but I’d rather see an engine in its true condition and not power washed.

    10
  19. Classic Steel

    I have read 69 z28 specs over the years too.
    I had 69 rally z28 with a rubber front bumper with hidden headlights and no front guards. The rear had guards and special tail light, door panel with four speed and console with gauges.

    I know this is s clone but just saying many items on 69 camaros were a little different on rallys vs non .

    1
  20. Darrun

    Nice car. I removed Bumper guards from my cars, simply because I didn’t like the looks of them. It probably had a cheap tiny Cal Custom steering wheel which had disintegrated since being install in the 70’s. Therefore replacing it with whatever GM steering wheel that was available.
    All the tell tale signs that everyone is pointing out, could very well been changes from the last 50 years. Teenagers driving these car in the 70’s wasn’t worried about authenticity. Many a Muscle Car was destroyed by concourse standards, within a year or two off the assembly line.

    17
  21. Weasel

    A big THANK YOU to everyone for not calling them Bumper overiders.

    I will say this: The door cards look a little wavy.

    2
    • BJ

      Weasel
      What is it you don’t like about over riders, originally that’s what they were called when they first appeared on cars early in the 19th century!

      1
  22. Camaro Joe

    For a price, Jerry MacNeish will look it over and tell you for sure if it’s a clone or a real Z/28 that’s been changed over the years. The bidding is over $25K now. That’s strong money for what may be a clone that needs quite a bit of TLC. If I was going to spend anywhere near $25K for it, I wouldn’t be guessing at what it is.

    It does have the 8000 RPM tach with a 6000 RPM redline. Most people building a clone don’t go as far as installing a reproduction tach. If it is a reproduction, it will likely look 40 or 50 years newer than the other gauges.

    If somebody is going to look at it, one way to get an indication of what it might be is the rear axle type and code. It has to be a 12 bolt rear end. Almost all 69 Z/28’s came with 3.73 or 4.11:1 gears. There may have been a few special ordered with 4.56 or 4.88:1 gears.

    The axle code is stamped on the front of the passenger’s side axle tube. If it is a real Z/28, the axle code will start with BE or BV (4.11 Posi), BO (3.73 open), BU (3.73 Posi), BW (4.56 Posi) or BX (4.88 Posi). If it doesn’t have one of those codes it’s a clone or the rear end has been changed.

    Another good clue is a Z/28 will have 15″ wheels and brakes the size of 69 Impala brakes. Every other 69 Camaro had 14″ wheels and smaller brakes.

    5
    • al8apex

      mostly correct info EXCEPT the tach and brakes

      the instrument cluster is a base one, a tachometer (real or likely reproduction) was inserted where the gas gauge should be. A real tach only cluster would have the gas gauge in the center and a optional console gauge car would have a clock there. This car originally had neither

      The standard on an SS and Z28 brakes (and optional on any other 69 Camaro) were the SAME size, only the optional JL8 four wheel disc brakes used larger front components

      2
  23. GP Member

    It’s over 26,000.00 now. It’s a very nice car and would like to have one again. Did they really rattle can the lic. plate mount silver and the tailpipe? No arm rest or radio antenna or radio. I think the color blue or silver was the best for this car. Just me, Good luck to the new owner. The seller is already having great luck.

    2
  24. Mike

    No one mentioned the rear stripes are wrong too. I know the guy said he didn’t know I was just throwing another screw up on the repaint and/or making a proper clone.

    2
  25. Eddie

    On all 4 speed cars the speedometer cable passed through the firewall between the engine and steering column, whereas automatics passed through on the outside of the steering column. As all 1st gen Z28s were 4 speeds, there should at least be a hole where the cable originally passed through between the engine and steering column.

    3
  26. Uncle Leo

    I stand to be corrected,but it was always my understanding that all ’69 Z-28’s and Rally Sport’s were built at the Norwich Ohio plant. The Vin numbers would not specifically identify either of the two cars.

    1
    • al8apex

      SO many “guesses” as to what is correct

      This is NOT a GM born Z28

      Norwood is the name of the GM Assy plant in Ohio, Van Nuys was the other one that made Camaros

      All models (RS, SS, Z28, etc) were made at both

      1
  27. Dan Yenko

    Stripes are way wrong along with a million other things. Not saying the seller misrepresented it. Just a marketing ploy that seems to be working well. Car at 28k already is probably high for a car needing a full restoration that is likely nothing more than a V8 4 speed Camaro. How about the rear? How many leafs? 140 MPH speedo?

    1
    • al8apex

      140 speedos weren’t standard or included with the Z28

  28. MJF

    but its in a Barn….

    10
    • Glen Riddle

      Yep, add the 20% “Barn Premium”! LOL.

      4
  29. Ronald G Bajorek jr

    great buy under 30, clone or not. Actually Drive it

    2
  30. David Harris

    Nice ride the color combo looks good on all generation Camaros

    1
  31. victor

    I have a real Z/28 X77D80 tr727 D-80 // this is a V-8 car but not a Z/28 several things are not correct,Steering wheel, stripes, missing bumper guards,not sure about the rear end but, should have a 12 bolt and, Disc brakes /// a side note the Super Nationals car show is this weekend here in Albuquerque, NM and at every car show someone always asks me why I put a Mustang engine in a nice looking Camaro ( 302) oh well it’s fun anyway

    9
  32. Del

    Hagerty evaluations put a #3 Good condition Camaro like this one at about 29 grand and add 5 more for the 4 speed.

    I personally would not pay that much considering the work needed. Comments agree its not a Z28

    Of course maybe all it needs is tires and brake refresh , to be a nice driver without spending to much.

    3
  33. bikefixr

    It’s a fake. But that doesn’t matter because a restoration shop will buy it for the rust-free metal. Wait 2 years. It’ll be on sale at Barret Jackson as a numbers matching original complete with the best restamped block, forged paperwork and protectoplate money can buy. There are more 69 Z’s registered today than GM made. As long as people pay real-deal money for fake cars, the practice will continue.

    6
  34. Mountainwoodie

    So.its up to 28G which to me is somewhat amazing.

    While everyone’s chiming in is interesting, we are so far down the time line that unless we had the build sheet in hand ( idk , did Camaros stick em under the seat or gas tank?) given the amount of “telephone” like info available. if I was a buyer, unless I was the Kevin Marti like Camaro guy, I would be very wary.

    Apparently the bidders are not like me :)

    1
    • JOHN

      It’s a regular old Camaro with a 4 speed. It doesn’t need a Jerry Mac Neish detailed inspection. It isn’t represented as a Z/28, or having the correct engine either. There are tons of comments regarding the authenticity of this being a real Z, it isn’t. It is a decent, typical Camaro that has not seen a restoration, it is a typical car that has had several owners, parts have been swapped, it was painted, striped and badged (poorly) as a Z. This is what we did back in the days. We drove them, beat on them, modified them and enjoyed them. A very precious few ever realized the uniqueness or the future collectibility of these cars. Enjoy the car, have fun with it! I’m glad I was able to enjoy these cars and drive the heck out of starting back in the late 60’s. I wonder how many of these commenters actually own a collector car or two, or four…

      10
  35. 1st Gear

    Who is noticing the rust bubbles in the pic of the passenger side rocker? I can appreciate the fact that the owner indicates that this is not a Z, and rightly so.Good for him. Saying that this is a rust free car,AND POSTING PICTURES OF RUST is a red flag raiser to any that’s been in our hobby for any length of time.

    1
  36. Gary MacDonald

    Check the power brake booster # stamped on it , check for a 3/8 fuel line ,
    Master cyl and alternators were commonly replaced . No replacement boosters with the correct number have been made . Extremely difficult, if not impossible to duplicate .
    Mac

    1
  37. Terry

    I’ve seen enough first gen Camaros to last me the rest of my life. Boring.

    7
  38. Al

    Not bad for a clone. New fr & rr seat covers it appears has been added recently & I’ve had a cpl of these & the original head rests never had that slop. Going to need a new headliner. Its at $28k now. Crazy for what it needs unless your satisfied to just leave as-is & drive it. Someone please remind me, since there are plenty in ID, when I sell my next classic, to find a barn I can park it in & throw my Dirt Devil on reverse to add some dust. I believe I’ll get another $10k-$15k over for the ‘Barn effect’.

    5
  39. Tort Member

    If you are not going to sell it at Barrett Jackson or Mercum’s or show it at some prestigious car show who cares! Drive it and enjoy the sound of the high revving engine under the hood.

    6
  40. shanahan

    If the guy in the picture had it a long time and the history is unknown, the seller must be a flipper. If it’s a clone someone had to clone it and probably after this old guy sold it.

    2
    • al8apex

      look at the sellers other sales and his “completed” sales, the seller IS a flipper / dealer

      1
  41. David K. Huffman

    Yep a clone but id like to have the 302 in my living room…

    3
    • al8apex

      he only states that the casting number is one that was used on the 302, the 010 block – used on 350’s, in trucks, many others

      it is unlikely that the engine IS a real 302, the seller does not offer casting date info nor engine ID pad info

      4
  42. Dan B

    Just wondering, if you had 30k to spend on a car, would you rather have a fake 69 Z28, or a Toyota Corolla? I had a real 69 Z28 in 87. The AC pump died shortly after l bought it. I went to the junkyard and bought a replacement. This is how lots of people repair old cars. I had no idea if it was from a Camaro or a truck. And l didn’t care either. Buy it and drive it or go buy a Kia so you can preserve it for future generations.

    4
    • al8apex

      air conditioning wasn’t available on a Z28 until 1973 when they went to hydraulic lifters and the Quadra jet carburetor

      5
    • AMCFAN

      Dan B, Make up your mind. Korea? Asian? You can get a new Camry that starts out at 24,900. The Corolla starts around $19,600 My choice? The Corolla (hot) Hatch 6 spd is only $20,290.

      I will put the rest into an IRA. Win Win.

      No going to the junkyards for Crusty Camaros today. Maybe Gen III and above you can. My local bone yard has 5 including a fresh yellow IROC.

      The trend is to buy parts on line now. There is FB, eBay wish ap Old yards are dead except those in the West.

      1
  43. Percy Hawkins

    Too rich for my blood.

  44. Kevin Lee

    I don’t know about driving it everyday, but I’d drive it as often as possible! I mean, isn’t that what they were intended for?

    3
  45. Dean Marino

    Contact Jerry McNiesh, he is the first gen Canaro gurue. He is hired by Barrett Jackson to certify Camaros, Corvettes….
    Take it from a authentic X77 code Norwood plant 69 Z/28 owner.

    1
    • al8apex

      why?

      there is no reason

      this car is NOT a Z28

      4
  46. Troy s

    Silver works so well on these early Camaro’s, it’s a bad looking street car and would be a blast to drive around. If it’s not a real Z car than there’s nothing wrong with beating on it a little…after all that’s what it was built like this for. Fun.
    How much would a real ’69 Z/28 go for in this shape? And then there’s screwing up an original rare car possibly, crazy drivers out there if you know what I mean.

    2
  47. Camaro Joe

    I have a couple articles that say the tank stickers that are found with LA built cars are usually taped to the top of the gas tank. Ohio built cars are more likely to be tucked into the springs of the rear seat.

    I have one of each. The Ohio built car was neither place. The LA built car was not under the back seat, in 24 years I’ve had it I never looked on top of the tank. When the weather warms up (probably April) I’ll get to the barn and look for it.

    At $28K the price is approaching the top of the range even if it was a real Z/28 with a non-matching 302. The cost of fixing all the wrong stuff plus a general restoration would be over $40K. There was a nicely restored car with a non-matching but date code correct 302 around here for sale last summer for that.

    1
  48. Peter Black

    You guys are brutal, the sell is being up front about the car. Like it or leave, it’s not like one of you are bidding on it.

    7
    • moosie moosie

      mob mentality

      4
    • RobB

      And, evidently, some people like it because they are bidding on it.

      3
    • AMCFAN

      That’s a pretty dumb assessment. There is a lot of education and speculation.

      The guy has had the same car for years. Doesn’t anyone think he knew what he had to begin with before he fixed it up? There are many ways to decode a true Z car. Books and the web it is documented. There are experts. Many on here. If it were true it would have never made it on ebay. It would have been sold prior.

      • Steve R

        The seller isn’t a long time owner, he’s a dealer/flipper. The description starts off, “owner never wanted to part with it”, that’s in the past tense. That’s the wording of someone that just bought the car would use. I would take everything in the ad with a grain of salt.

        Steve R

  49. Jb

    These LOONIE ebayers are almost at THIRTY GRAND on this thing. Grandpa was right, a fool and their money are SOON PARTED!!

    1
  50. Al

    Itll probably be relisted if the buyer sees it in person and more in depth observance. If it’s not close as described, theyll back out.

    2
    • al8apex

      MANY of this seller’s listings that “sold” on eBay have been relisted – some multiple times

      1
  51. Camaro Joe

    Peter Black is correct, the seller says up front “It can’t be confirmed as a real Z/28 so he is selling it as a clone. The seller is suspect and not 100% up front because he says the motor is a real 302 Z/28 but not original to the car.

    If the motor is a real 302 Z/28 it affects the price by around $4K. The quote was “The casting numbers say it’s a 302.” My problem with that is that casting number could be any 302 or 350 4 bolt main block from 1969. That doesn’t in any way tell you it’s a 302.

    The engine stamp on the block deck just in front of the passenger’s side cylinder head should be V(MO)(DA)DZ. “MO” and “DA” being the month and day it was stamped. The seller/flipper doesn’t show that, so it is suspect. If it’s a real 302, why not show the block stamp unless you suspect it’s not real? Everything about this thing concerns me. Call Jerry the Camaro Man before spending $30K.

    3
    • Al

      More than likely a 327.

  52. al8apex

    maybe, just maybe, someone will read the ad description, look at / study the pictures before they offer their opinion on what it isn’t or is missing

    the car was probably a base V8 3 speed, as evidenced by the rear spring shock mount only slightly visible in one of the undercarriage pics. When I say base V8, that also means mono leaf rear springs, the kind that use the shock mount visible (only slightly) in that one picture

    I really don’t think many could make that determination from the pic … that said, mono leaf rear springs = a 10 bolt rear axle

    The same undercarriage pic shows a replacement floor section repair poorly made …

    lots of conjecture from a lot of folks without intimate knowledge of 69 Camaros

    3
    • JB

      I agree 110% with al8apex!! A lot of STUPID PEOPLE WITH LOTS OF MONEY. Just dumb.

      2
  53. JB

    Does anyone know what the final bid amount was???

    • moosie moosie

      $ 29,600.00

      1
      • JB

        Thanks moose!

        1
  54. paul armstrong

    nice car but not a Z. fun to drive thats for sure

  55. Todd

    It’s re listed because shill bidders driving up the price and the winning bidder was one of them vs a real bidder.
    Happening more and more.

    3
    • Del

      No reason to Shill bid unless you own the car

      1
  56. First53Resorter

    Dunno about the wisdom of spending the ask on this one. Spent a week recently with a rented 2020 Camaro SS convertible from Hertz. Hands down – not a second thought would go into purchasing one of those to be enjoyed on sunny, warm days.

    1
  57. George M. Louis

    Be carefull!!! Look at the rear License Plate holder. The one in picture is painted silver.. Original equipment is painted “Black” Look closely.

    • BJ

      Who gives a rat’s arse, nothing a rattle can of black paint wouldn’t fix, not something that would stop me from buying the car if I liked it, picky, picky, picky !!

      2
  58. JP

    Way to much $ for just a 1969 Camaro its a $15-22k car at best come on guys just to do body work and a decent paint job is almost $10k to pay almost 30k that needs work is just not worth it unless u want to through your money out the window ! That is what happen to Car RUN up$ market for anybody to agree that a $15k STREET car. (Remember those cars ?). Is worth 30k is not true !!

  59. JOHN

    This car sure does stir people up. The owner in my opinion is very clear and states “I CANNT VERIFY THAT THIS IS A TRUE Z/28 CAR SO IM GONNA SAY ITS A CLONE” Guys, it’s a 69 4 speed Camaro, relatively rust free and straight. It need attention in numerous areas. The only thing that would make this a better description would be photo’s of the engine stamping numbers on the block. The only thing that is potentially misleading is stating it is a 302 Z motor. Take a photo of the engine stampings (clearly visible unless the block has been decked) or state that that there are no numbers visible. 69 302’s are rare, but… a lot of these cars were wrecked and stolen back in the day, so it’s quite possible this is a real 302. Short of engine ID numbers, or disassembly to see the crank part numbers (also the cylinder heads) assume it’s not. But again, a 69 4 speed straight, rust free Camaro, a good buy. Drive and enjoy as you fix the little things.

    2
  60. Camaro Joe

    Without looking at it in person, I’ll give it a 10% chance that it’s a real Z/28 that’s had a ton of stuff changed. Otherwise it’s a clone. Since it’s re-listed, it looks like the high bidder looked at it and had second thoughts.

    As JP said, it’s a $15K car at best, unless the motor is a real “DZ” block. And if it is a “DZ” block, why doesn’t the seller take a picture of the stamp? It’s not hard to find and everybody knows where it is. The high bidder from the last auction probably dodged a $14K bullet by backing out of that one.

    1
  61. Tom Member

    Wow, what a log of relatively great comments, new and old. I read most, perhaps I missed this,……

    If you have watched the market in the past 15-20 years, a CLONE will sell for more than a base model anything…for the most part excluding a museum piece. Now, if this car is not real and is a clone, it certainly needs to be made a better representation.

    A clone will allow someone who “always wanted one” to own one without paying the much bigger money (that they may not or may never have) for the real thing. THERE IS A MARKET FOR THAT ALONE.

    69 Camaro (just one of the “cult cars” of 60’s muscle cars. Manual Trans. Little to no rust. Runs, drives, most of the parts are there and in good/great condition….. Clone or not, the 25K +/- 5 is probably the right money.

  62. Doc Member

    I’m not wrong about the staggered rear shocks or the rear bumper guards. Only the solid lifter motors had staggered rear shocks. Designed to reduce wheel hop. The Z/28 rear bumpers were lower cause the car sat lower. Ask McNeish.

    • al8apex

      fake facts

      EVERY 68 & up Camaro had staggered rear shocks

      it was an engineering improvement over the 67’s and did away with the need for the anti hop rear bar that was on the 67 SS’s and Z28’s

      the Z28 bumpers were not lower

      So you have two id’s? Lynn and doc

      1
  63. Desert rat

    I’ll chime in on the staggered shocks I have a base 69 camaro came from the factory with a 307 cid ,three speed on the floor owned it now for 16 years and it has staggered shocks.

    3
  64. Jim Turner

    Those CA Zs had a job #, instead of the X33-X77, or whatever #s and letters were most common. How do I know? I had one. I found the build sheet on top of the fuel tank, in a jillion pieces, but it documented the car. The gauges, cowl hood, rear spoiler were all options. Big redline tach was std equip. If the 12 bolt rear is missing, there are other things to check. Its been a while, but seems like there is a tailpipe hangar specific to a Z, maybe the steering box, and a few other things. You can figure it out if you have the patience. Mine still had the 12 bolt and bumper guards, along with gauge pkg., but no cowl hood. Buy this one like it’s not a Z and it may surprise you. All that bs could have been changed, robbed, torn up, whatever. I will bet this could be one, cause that J whatever on the body tag really looks familiar. My 2 cents worth.

    • al8apex

      AGAIN, this car NEVER was a Z28, not from GM

      the only surprise you may get will be from hidden rust, as the floor pans have already been POORLY replaced

      It has mono leaf rear springs, so therefore it has a 10 bolt rear axle

      fyi, the tach was an OPTION on the early cars (can’t remember though what month, but for several months anyway), and many didn’t have them

      J on the body tag means nothing on this car, it was NEVER a GM built Z28, give it a rest already …

  65. Del

    Its back on eBay because a lot of bidders are joking around and have no intentions of honouting their bids. I doubt if eBay tries to do much about these things.

    Thats why it surprises me when people here assume it sold. Many sellers just say screw it and try to sell on another venue.

    1
  66. Camaro Joe

    Jim Turner, you’re correct about the steering box. If it was manual steering, it was a “Quick ratio” box that was great on the road, but a BEAR to drive in town. Forget about parallel parking it unless you’re a refugee from Big Time Wrestling.

    I have a couple of quick ratio manual steering boxes in the attic, my cars now have late 1970’s variable ratio power steering. In my 20’s it was cool to have the manual steering box. Once I got over 40, power steering became a “Must have” thing. Now I’m 67 and can’t live without it.

    Stripes and spoilers were standard on 69 Z/28’s. On a special order car, you could delete either the stripes or spoilers, but you didn’t get money back. One of my cars came from LA with stripes but no spoilers. I added them when I restored it, just because I like the look. In 1974 my friends questioned whether that car was a real Z/28 because it didn’t have spoilers. It took 35 years to find out that there was a spoiler delete option.

    1

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