Much digital ink has been spilled in the media to convince everyone that we are entering a recession. Maybe. Maybe not. One of the ways car enthusiasts can tell if money is tight is by looking at the antique and collectible automobile market. When desirable cars don’t sell at traditionally realistic prices, we know disposable income spending is on the wane. Take, for example, the market for prewar coupes. These desirable and drivable vehicles have historically brought good money from collectors eager to put them to use. Take for example this attractive and positively presentable 1941 Plymouth coupe for sale on Facebook Marketplace in Lebanon, Kentucky. With 45 arduous weeks on Facebook Marketplace at an asking price of $15,000 (down from $16,500) without a buyer in sight, maybe the time has come for the owner to make a less lucrative deal. If so, what is an appropriate price for this car in this economy? Is it a proverbial “canary in a coal mine” when it comes to the prewar automobile market? Thanks to reader Pnuts for this interesting find!
It was interesting to see this car come up on our suggestions list on Barn Finds. Readers may remember a few stories I have written that tie-in with my desire to drive a prewar car across this great country of ours. The later the production date of the chosen steed the better for such an adventure. This, and experience with the MOPAR flathead six-cylinder engine has led me to narrow down my choice of cars to Plymouth coupes from around 1936 through 1941. I’ll admit that a lot of my choice is due to the subtle good looks of these cars as well. Plymouth’s styling in 1941 was probably the best looking of the bunch, and would be the one I’d like most of all. Finances and storage have worked together like a professional wrestling tag team to make sure this dream remains exactly that.
Hope, however, springs eternal. The combination of the inflation of our money and the deflation of value for most prewar cars may mean that this trip will someday happen. Thirty years ago, the price of a restored prewar coupe in running condition hovered around $20,000. Convertibles were the only body style that brought more. Now we live in a world where $20,000 barely buys the cheapest new car sold in America and there are a whole lot more choices available in the classic car market for that formerly princely sum. Besides inflation, a lot has changed since then. The generation that remembers these cars on the streets has passed and newer generations have no experience with such automobiles. A column shifted manual transmission is as befuddling to them as a Rubik’s Cube would be to a lost tribe in the Amazon.
You can also look at such goings on as an opportunity. For the shrinking number of us that find these cars appealing, opportunities are forming before our eyes. Cars like this 1941 Plymouth coupe may soon be quite affordable. This one has the appearance of an older restoration that has been well maintained. As is the usual with such ads, we aren’t told a whole lot about the car’s history. We do know that it has the original drivetrain and that the trunk and engine bay are “clean.” A little more information about the condition of the mechanicals and if they have been rebuilt would be a refreshing start to enticing more buyers. At the 45 week point, it might be time for a better description in the ad.
We do know that the seller has added a front disc brake conversion to the car but do not know if a dual-circuit master cylinder has replaced the single pot original during the fresh brake job the car received. One of the drawbacks of older cars is that the braking system was designed for an era before expressways and interstates. Conversion its for early Mopars are a recent development and a positive addition for a car that will be driven regularly. The seller has also upgraded the electrical system to a 12-volt one. The only negatives listed in the ad are that the driver’s side window is cracked and that the engine suffers from a high idle speed issue that the seller has not repaired. Other than that, it runs great according to the ad.
So why has this very presentable classic Plymouth sat on Facebook Marketplace for 45 long weeks? The biggest obstacle is that a car this nice is just not going to bring $15,000 in today’s market. That is a hard truth to swallow, but one that is uncomfortably staring us in the face in today’s economy. The seller seems content to wait for the perfect fish to swim by and get gut-hooked upon seeing this car. Maybe that will happen. Or, lowering the price by $1,000 every week until someone bites may tell both the seller and us where the market is right now. As much as I like this car, I hope that price remains reasonable for the foreseeable future. I’d hate to see such a car become worth so little that some would consider it disposable. Yet I think that day is coming faster than we would like to admit.
What do you think is a fair price for this 1941 Plymouth coupe? At what price would you make room in your collection for it? Please share your thoughts on this car and the current market for such cars in the comments.
Jeff, I am finally seeing some evidence of this “correction” that everyone’s been talking about for the last 10 years. Up until just recently, prices have seemed pretty solid. Just look at a ’65 Lincoln for example.
But this pre-war/post-war vintage seems to be getting a bit soft. This morning I was quite surprised at the selling price of this nice “39 Chrysler Imperial. What a beauty at such a bargain price.
https://www.hemmings.com/auction/1939-chrysler-imperial-boone-ia-964329/sold
Jeff, I am pleased to see the staff finally commenting on the economics I have been noting for a few weeks now, and getting lambasted for it. Keeping your head in the sand doesn’t make something you don’t like go away. I can say one thing for sure, I don’t feel very “great”. As I say that, I look out my window and on this late April day, it is starting to heavily snow. If that is not a metaphor, I am not sure what is.
Jeff, thank you for this excellent commentary on the current state of mind and economy. So well dialed in. Cross country trip ? Yes! In a ’41 Plymouth? Of course!
A very welcome post.
It would be perfect for driving the centennial of Route 66 next year.
In addition to the current economic uncertainty, I have to wonder how much of a factor the aging out of the potential demographic for prewar cars plays in their decreasing prices. I am 71, and cars like this played a minor role in my life (really early childhood), and they hold no interest for me (as well as being impractical to drive in many modern traffic environments). I imagine that interest probably declines with younger generations (I have two adult children who have no interest in automobiles- just that they start every morning). The cars that are significant to them were likely built in the 1970s-1980s or newer. A 20 year old who lusted over an unaffordable (at the time) new vehicle in 2000 is now 45 years old. I imagine that many cars from the 50s and 60s will follow a similar path, as many of us report for “the final recall”.
So true, Godzilla. Interests and preferences are generational. At 75, I clearly remember a time before the interstate highway system, when vehicles like these were, literally, everywhere. Indeed, I recall, as a young child, routinely riding in cars from the late 1930s. Nostalgia impels my interest, no doubt, and today I own a 1946 GMC pickup. Contrast this with my nephew’s case. At 36, this Ph.D.computer-scientist never registered any interest in cars. Whereas I was pulling wrenches at age 13 on an uncle’s used-car lot, he was at that age developing his own software. Indeed, he and his wife now own two Teslas, the attraction for them being they’re more computer than car. Go figure.
Start at $5,000 & go from there. $20,000 30 years ago? Don’t think so, probably $1,000! Nice Plymouth, but not worth $20,000!
It’s a nice Plymouth. They are good, durable cars. This one looks nice. But it’s still a Plymouth, and like it or don’t, Plymouths don’t bring big money; lessin’ it’s a Roadrunner, GTX, Cuda, or a Superbird. This ain’t that.
I believe that the people who appreciate these cars aging out of the market is the main reason for the weak prices. The stats I see for the current economic situation are positive, but people often create their own “bad economies”.
Near old car. Hope it finds a good home.
Sad but true. Potential buyers have, and are, aging out of these cars. For today’s buyers, these cars offer so very little that is important to them. The thrill of such a connected driving experience is quite foreign to them. I don’t think the current failing economy has that much to do with the current selling prices of these cars. It’s just the current buyers lack of interest due to unfamiliarity with them.
Agree on that. My thought is exactly what cars presently the norm for transportation, other than mega buck specialty cars, are the present generations going to be interested in. Billions of look-a-like all the same color cars that we now have l don’t see being collector cars. Don’t forsee anyone doing a restoration on a grey Nisson SUV in the future.
I said the same thing 40 yrs ago about rusty GM trucks. I even joked that if anyone did want to restore one there wouldn’t be anything left to restore. We can’t know today what is going to spark a fond memory in someone’s mind 2-3-4 decades from now. That’s what they will want, something that makes them reflect on times that in their minds were simpler, happier, easier. Maybe they couldn’t afford it then but can now. Those memories leave this earth with the people that held them.
Pnuts, I’ve seen an article from an early-60’s enthusiast magazine article quoted saying the same thing about cars from that era. I even bought that issue in a lot with other magazines and read it, so I’d know first hand what it said. The article stated cars from that era, the tri-5 Chevy’s, 409 Impala’s, Galaxies, Imperials, Cadillac’s and early-muscle would not hold enthusiasts interest long term and wouldn’t be restorable largely because only the front fenders and doors would unbolt. By this point in time that article has proven to have it backwards.
Steve R
Pnuts, if someone in 40 years looks back at this time and remembers it as simpler, happier, and easier…I really worry about the future. Probably the only kind of person in the situation to restore a car in such a time, is going to be the very highest of the elite. If that is who they are, then the cars they grew up with today, would not be a Nissan SUV. We are planting the seeds today for tomorrows misery.
I can’t like or reply to any of these responses So I will make a new response to first comment. Jerry, that’s why I say in their mind. It is a perceived simpler times. The reason being they were kids at the time and didn’t have the responsibilities and hadn’t been kicked down as many times at that point in their lives. Cars like our parents, grandparents, aunts uncles etc had remind us of those days. Our parents didn’t think things were simpler during those days they were carrying the weight, mortgages etc. They harkened back themselves to days when “times were simpler.” My Dad always wanted a Model A. By the time I could afford to buy him one it was too late.
Steve R, yes. I’ve read those articles too and watched them be “wrong” as prices continued to climb. The mid 50s – 60s cars are a different era. Their day will come but some of the more classic styles will remain collectible for a while yet.
There’s a lot of what I believe to be true in your post. I can also say that I have a number of old motorcycles, and the oldest, a 69 year old 250 BMW, is not anything I would take on a freeway at all, and I’d be hard pressed to do so on a major road where the average speeds are between 50-60 MPH. The bike will do it, but my nerves won’t.
But I can also say that in this economy, I’m really thinking twice about purchases that I’d have probably just done without a second thought. I never, in my adult life, really ever gave any thought to anything I bought, as long as I could afford it and it made me happy. But now, even if I can afford it, it does give me pause…
In fact, today, DHL announced that they won’t ship packages over $800 to the US. I get a lot of parts from Europe, and they ship via DHL.
Exactly Azzurra, it is a baby boomer’s car, and baby boomers are facing extinction!
Besides, who knows how to drive cars that are more than 40 years old? Especially when manual transmissions are becoming unique.
Who knows how to fix them? Even to fix an erratic idle?
I would like one like that, but money and how much longer will I be able to drive?
It’s interesting that my take on today’s economy and the state of classic prices went right down the memory hole.
….or maybe fixing the few items that need fixing….
If you’re a collector looking for appreciation on your investment, forget it. If you collect for the love of it, that’s different. If you’re the former now may be a good time to cut your losses.
Agree with the gang on age/ market theory more than economy, all though that’s on customer’s minds about the same as a year or two ago, rest- o-mods doing well, the younger market has the influence, just like 40 years ago.
Of course the primary buyer for a car like this is ready to push up daisies, but I see drops in all vintage cars, most much newer. That is hard to explain except for economic uncertainty. The only area of solid prices are ultra high end cars that the 1% buy, but that is a given. Most of us have seen a large part of our net worth disappear, seemingly over night. Who is going to make major purchases now? Some may speculate on the bottom of the market, but I fear that is a poor idea, the pain is going to last a long time. Personally, I in late November cashed in over half of my portfolio, keeping only the most solid blue chip stuff, stuff I have held for years. I figured the cash was going to come in handy. Obviously, cashing in at that time, the top of the market was pretty wise. (I guess it wasn’t as much of a disaster as some were spouting, was it? It is now, though) Good luck to all. Helpful hint, the canned meat at Dollar Tree is usually better then the stuff at Dollar General. They also sell not too bad cat food for those really hard times.
I agree with the sentiments here and have been in that camp for a few yrs now. Market pressures, up or down, are rarely driven by one thing but often, if not usually, have one leading thing. That car is still listed in my local marketplace. I have it saved because I own its sister and am very interested in the market value. As I said the last time you commented on your “fly in and drive home” ambitions, I have a nice 40 dark red I’d sell less than this, all original I’d drive anywhere (as long as I wasn’t in a hurry) I did a mechanical restoration on it in 19-20 and haven’t driven it much. It lives inside and sees the occasional short trip. If your circumstances were to change that is.
Lots of interesting discussions here. I personally love cars like this and wish our author fulfillment of his ambition to acquire one and get out on Route 66. The topic of which way the wind is blowing in the pre-war collector car market has been discussed frequently here on BF for a couple of years now. The “canary in the coal mine” is on display at every car show, cars and coffee and cruise in. These cars are becoming increasingly rare attendees. When you do see them, invariably the owners are old fossils like me. The younger generations who represent the majority of the people who now attend these events have other interests. And there is nothing wrong with that. I enjoy checking out their rides. As to the “investment” calculus in the old car hobby; I personally have never dwelled on the philosophy. I can honestly say that I have never made an appreciable profit on any of my collector car sales. In fact I probably put more into them than I ever got out. Other hobbyists can relate to this experience. I think that the “old cars are investments” concept was foisted on our hobby about twenty five years ago by outsiders who never appreciated these vehicles like we do. Investors entered into the hobby and spawned the Barrett Jackson frenzy we still have today. With regard to this 1941 Plymouth; it seems that forty five weeks for sale is indicative of an asking price that is not in line with the market. Regardless of one’s perception of the current economy; the buyers are out there making offers on collector vehicles that are perceived to present value for the money. I wish this seller the best but unfortunately for them (IMO) if they want this car sold they will have to drop the price to around seventy five percent of their current ask.
The lack of interest in this era of car has more to do with them not having a strong following. These are probably not high on the list of cars anyone under the age of 60 has on their dream car list. True the traditional buyer for these are “aging out” and are either generally not in the market to purchase or are selling. Who’s there to replace them? I’m 62, worked in automotive for decades, bought and sold many cars, support my hobby be selling parts on the secondary market over the years, so have most of my friends. None of my friends have ever had any interest in this sort of car, younger generations have even less. The economy isn’t helping, but these cars have been on a downward trajectory for years, nothing is going to stop that anytime soon.
Muscle and performance cars, non performance cars that share the same bodies, many trucks, Blazers, Bronco’s, sports cars, basically anything geared towards enthusiasts may have corrections, but will not follow the same path as this car and cars like it in the foreseeable future.
The cars that are not reflected in popular culture will not hold value long term, they are what’s reflected in the market and isn’t going to change anytime soon.
Steve R
Thank you to all who have commented on the article I wrote. My intention wasn’t to bring politics into the discussion as I feel that we are, as Mongo so eloquently put it, pawns in the game of life when it comes to such matters.
My intent was to express a little bit of dismay that many of the cars we love will soon be worth little and treated as such by those who don’t share our passions. I also felt it important to point out that the silver lining to all of this will be that perhaps maybe some day we will be able to afford some of the cars we have lusted after.
As for the cross-country trip, that has always been an unfulfilled dream of mine. Time, finances, and the never ending wait for everything to be perfect before taking the leap of faith to pull out of the driveway have all conspired to prevent this from happening. A recent health scare and seeing a relative struggle with rapidly spreading cancer have all brought this dream back to the front of my mind. I have been watching this Plymouth for some time with the thought it would be a good candidate for such a journey. To see it pop up on the suggestions list was an opportunity I couldn’t pass up.
Thank you again for your comments and praise. They mean a lot to me.
People collect the cars that they relate to. The younger set are into imports but the ones who are true enthusiasts like vintage iron. Just, their vintage iron is different. Show them a Datsun 510 or 240Z that is 20 or more years older than them, their eyes get real wide. Show them the Charger I owned in tne early 80s and their reaction is muted. I see it in my early 20s daughter all of the time.
Her boyfriend would like that big block Malibu a few cars above but most of his contemporaries would be more interested in the Datsun S10s featured in the last few days.
It is, what it is.
Datsun 200SX is what I meant.
Well I have this exact same car, except jet black and in fine shape. They are a great car to drive, and look fine also. I turned down $19000. from two different people, one of which is now deceased, and I know I probably won’t get those offers again, but its all right, I only paid $6500. just a short time ago so I’m not likely to loose too much on it. The key is to buy low I guess and then you can come out O.K. in the end. I wish Camaro’s and Chevelles would drop in price, but I’m not seeing that yet.